I have been participating in a discussion on The Horse Forum (http://www.horseforum.com/) about the closure of horse slaughterhouses in the US. I think it a good thing, but many people on the Forum think it bad since horses are being abandoned and/or trucked out of the country to less-regulated facilities.
I am curious as to what Monty and others on this forum think. Is there another way for "excess" horses to be "dealt with"? Are slaughterhouses a "necessary evil"?
I lean to a combination of reduction in overbreeding, an end to horse entertainment based on "use them up and spit them out", more rescue/adoption, and local euthanasia (whether drugs or captive bolt is more humane I leave to others to decide) followed by cremation or rendering. Just as with cats and dogs, the goal would be no-kill or as close to it as possible.
Is this unrealistic just because horses are a)big, b)expensive to maintain, and c)eaten in other countries?
I too am for re-opening the slaughterhouses, for the reason you stated above: at least here, we can regulate them so they will be as humane as possible. Perhaps we didn't do that before, which was what caused the closures--frankly, I don't know as the whole issue didn't cross my radar until the closures had already occured. I do believe that out-of-country slaughterhouses, particularly in Mexico, are horror houses. However, properly regulated, US slaughterhouses could provide an inexpensive last alternative for those horse owners who choose to go that route.
Having said all that, I can also tell you I will never send any of my horses that route. When it is their time, I will put them down and shoulder the burden of having their bodies properly disposed of. I believe the current financial state that many horse owners find themselves in makes that option for them almost impossible. This is a major part of what is causing the glut of abandoned/neglected horses we are now seeing.
What is needed, if slaughterhouses are not reinstated, is a financially viable alternative for horse owners who can't pay for euthanasia and who have failed to otherwise re-home their horse(s). Right now, the rescues are valiantly stepping up to try to fill that void, but there are far too many horses and far too few rescue operations to even begin to overcome the excess.
I'd like to see the breed organizations step up, in conjunction with the vets, to help offer humane euthanasia options at a reasonabe price for those who feel that death is the only alternative left. And for those same breed organizations to get with their members to encourage a much more responsible rate of breeding than what is currently seen. There are far too many horses being bred that don't end up being champions, and they end up on the market along with all the others.
And lastly, I'd like to see the BLM step up and start gelding some percentage of the mustang colt crop each year (not all of them, as we do want our national horse to continue), until the need to round them up and move them around and adopt them out eases off. This too would cost money and time, but when what you are doing isn't working well enough, you need to change the game plan.
Stepping off the soapbox now. Thanks for provoking me to think about this important set of issues.
I'm not in the US, but the problem is world-wide, I fear. Here in Europe, horses have been trailered across the continent to Italy during the most horrific conditions with several horses dead or near dead on arrival, simply because of money issues.
-
If you close the one "sensible" option there is, you haven't solved a single thing; just moved the problem "out of sight", which in no way has solved the biggest issue: how to end the life for horses with no options left to them.
-
There will always be people who can't afford, arrange or simply won't bother themselves with, euthanasia at home what with the problem of taking care of the carcass etc.
Instead of closing the slaughter-houses, I think they should create a more rigorous standard for how they deal with the animals, so that the horses meet with death in a non-stressful way.
-
On a side note, an insurance company here in Sweden refuses to pay up for horses that has options aside from being put down. They buy the horses from the owners, take them to a yard where they specialize in recovery, and eventually re-locate the horses with new owners who can cater to their needs.
I have to agree, the slaughter houses need to be re-opened. Living in Alberta, I know where horses that go to the auctions mostly end up. But what else do you do with that un-wanted/sick/injured animal? There are too many people out there that breed horses like livestock, so they need to be treated like livestock. Cows go through the same slaughter as horses, why is cow or pig slaughter not banned?
The public needs to realize the burden that closing slaughter houses in the US has effected the horse market. It has even effected it here in Canada, even though we have two open slaughter houses. Horse prices have dropped dramatically, there are more and more cases of starved horses over the winter, and the rescues are starting to get maxed out.
Slaughter houses need to be re-opened with a strict humane way of ending the horses life. I disagree with euthinizing all these unwanted horses because we are ultimatly wasting food. I never have, and never will eat horse meat. But there are starving humans all over the world, if we could stop being so wasteful I am sure those starving kids would appreciate it very much.
Instead of closing the slaughter houses I would have asked Temple Gardin to think of how to make them as easy as possible for the horses.
But I also think that we should be able to choose for euthanasia without the big money issue. Money should be collect from all the slaughter houses and a very small contribution from all the horses owners every year to create a found that would finance free enthanasia for all the horses.
"Belgian and Dutch consumers were shocked to learn of widespread horse slaughter-related cruelty in North and South America. Undercover video footage aired on three major news programs showed horses designated for slaughter are routinely starved, dehydrated, injured and abused."
KLAS-8 News "Summit of the Horse" 1/4/2010 George Knapp and Simone Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hyPDzEbLU
Full article including a disturbing video; http://www.animalsangels.org/news/64-other-featured-stuff-continued.html[url]
I have posted this for 2 reasons. 1 is raise awareness of the situation (as many people are ignorant of this) and 2, ask that everyone signs the petition and re posts on all their social networks.[img] http://apps.facebook.com/petitions/1/outlaw-international-transport-of-horses-for-human-food/
The situation is now hotting up and hitting headlines. With an investigation likely our signatures will carry more weight when those in charge understand the depth of feelings about this and the widespread level of the problem.
As natural horsemen and women we are particulally concerned with the good treatment of our own horses as well as all others and ask we do what we can to support the outlaw of these terrible practices, which are everyday occurances here in the USA and in Europe.
I do not agree with re-opening the plants. Slaughter has been noted as an easy alternative to humane treatment, but the real problem is the mindset of horse owners. Breeding rates are deplorably high, and many people breed irresponsibly. I believe that with a combination approach that addresses all the issues (overbreeding, high costs of gelding/euthanasia, and lack of rescue organizations) we can address the PROBLEM of too many unwanted horses, instead of addressing the outcome with a fix that is not acceptable to horses or caring horse owners. Without writing a book on the subject, obviously these changes would take time, but one can expect this for a problem that is so widespread.
I disagree with some of you about re-opening slaughter houses. It's extremely inhumane since some of the wild mustangs have been sold to these horrible places! There are pictures I get in the mail of the suffering that these horses endure before death. I don't like it!
Here in Pa. The number of horses to auction and slaughter is growing. Some never make it to auction as the dealers buy them out of the pens.THIS is a grave offence. We have few rescue facilities and they are filled. What to do! officers should be at every sale. Every horse needs to be auctioned and the killing pens need to be watched. I know that some horses are beyond rescue. Why can't there be a humane put down facility with burrial sites avail.? The horses who may be of use or salvagable should be given away to proven, honest owners with current info filled out on legal forms as to what their facility is, including pictures and follow up visits by volunteers to check out the progress of the horses placed.If we don't want them slaughtered, someone must help by offering property & fields for burrials and donated vet assistance for the put downs. The states must allow this.
If dog food is an option, for damaged beyond help horses but not sick horses, there should not be any profit for the deliverer or trucker. They should be compensated only for transporting to the slaughter facility not for the number of horses or weights, for humane put downs.
As long as the trucker is paid for each horse, the slaughter will be including horses not in need of/for slaughter.
Greetings all
Great discussion and great points made both for and against the opening of slaughter houses. as an aside the problem with slaughter houses is critical for both horses and all other farm animals. In the US there are only three major slaughter houses for cattle and guess what, more animals are abused in their handling as well as major outbreaks of disease.
Where I live there use to be 4 small slaughter houses to process local animals and now there is only one and that one is about to close. Ranchers now have to transport there animals long distances for processing which is very hard on the animals.
Over breeding is one of the biggest problems not only for the number of horses produces but the quality of the breeds. Anyone that goes to quarter horse shows is witness to this practice. The horse no longer look like quarter horses they are not trained to represent the great qualities of that breed
When people breed horses for color, size, or other traits but ignore quality everyone looses. Why do we have so many "surplus" horse both wild and domestic? People must be held accountable for the care of the animals that are in their charge and government needs to find realistic solutions to regulating animal production.
Slaughter houses were closed as a result of well meaning people trying to protect horses from cruel treatment but their solution was terrible. Now there are thousands of horses starving and being mistreated Horse owners run out of finances and turn their horses loose in the wild where they starve because they don't know how to exist in the wild or there never was enough feed in the wild to support the numbers of animals turned loose.
I don't have any ready cookie cutter solution but what we have now is worse than what people where trying to fix. Personally I will never sell my horse because he is too old because my horse basically saved my life by reconnecting me with my true self. He deserves the same from me.
Cheers and thanks for all the great discussions
horse slaughter houses should be closed PERIOD
Hi This is an age old problem. In the Uk we used to have a horse charity called the "society for the humane disposal of surplus horses". I dont know if they still exist. We need another one of these, providing a cheap humane knock down and disposal service. If all horse owners contributed, surely it would help. Also we had legislation called Minimum Values legislation, which prevented the sale of UK horse overseas for slaughter by placing a value on them higher than slaughter houses could afford. However the EU has said this is an infringement to fair trade!! and declared Minimum Values illegal - this combined with the closing of our horse slaughter houses has resulted in the threat of UK horses being shipped abroad again. Micro chipping is supposed to have stopped this too - but its baloney. Horses are still being transported to Ireland, then to Eire, where they are loaded onto ships and sent to EU countries. Again, if horse owners supported a charity to provide a disposal service, it would at least help. I had an old pony mare destroyed 2 years ago - I insisted she was put down with an overdose of aneasthetic, and she was taken dead by a rendering plant. It cost £200 in total, which is nothing compared to the overall cost of horse ownership. Maybe horse owners should be required by law to keep a savings fund for this amount for each horse they own.
I agree that there are lots of unwanted horses, and i don't think the slaughter house is the right place for them. Many of these horses are perfectly fit to carry a rider, and could be trained for something more efficient like government use?
Slaughter houses are not humane things, and should be closed.
Hear in Canada only one province allows horse slaughter and that is Quebec.
Many horses are shipped from the States and taken there.
Many auction houses try to sell them first but if they do not sell, for whatever reason, they are taken to the slaughter house and sold by the pound.
If they are on the thin side they keep them and fatten them up and then slaughter them.
Imagine the horse, they smell the blood, hear the screams, no wonder they are traumatized. I rescued MY STAR from that and trust me she has issues!
The thing that gets me, the meat is then shipped to Europe, go figure.
Some say it is no different than cow but as a horse lover it rubs me the wrong way.
Even the slaughter of cows is done in a cruel way, they are roped then dragged along a metal belt, on their sides and presto, gone.
A lot of the fault lies with irresponsible horse owners. We do not live in a time where the horse is an everyday thing, something that was necessary for live, who pays, the helpless horse.
Over population, look at the mustang for an example, not wanted, eats the pasture needed for the cattle therefore hunted down and shot on the spot and then left for food for any beast, wounded or killed it doesn't matter.
Will man ever be kind when it comes to the almighty dollar?
What next slaughter houses for the elderly and the infirmned, no more of any use, presto gone?
Ronda
The slaughter of animals is quite troublesome. We know that it can be done in a humane way and that while on the surface it may look like a more expensive method it really is the most profitable since the animals are treated well and if they are ill they are taken out of the area and treated for their injury or disease. (This really is about cattle but it applies to all farm animals)
Fortunately there has been enough pressure on the federal government that mustangs are protected and regulated but the bureau of land management. A wonderful lady by the name of Velma Johnson is responsible for saving the mustang and wild burros. If you have an interest about her this site is pretty good. http://www.wildhorsepreservation.com/resources/annie_act.html
My horse club is sponsoring a mustang and wild burro adoption event again this year. A number of our members have adopted wild mustangs as their pleasure horse. http://www.napamustangdays.com/
Unfortunately there are those people that have no respect for animal or man and mistreat both with out regard for common decency. I will not get off my soap box!
Cheers
Dennis,
Are you in the U.S.? The reason I ask is I got the impression you are Brittish.
When I was talking about the mustang I was talking about ranchers here in Canada, it's still a problem even with the laws.
I too have soap boxes, many, and I will not give up either.
Thank you for the address, I will get in contact right now.
The best,
Ronda
Ronda
We still have problems with the way the mustangs are being managed. BLM being a government agency doesn't always respond appropriately to peoples suggestions or even help in managing the large herds of horses. They think they need to control the mare population when they should be controlling the stallion population. By gelding select stallions you then control the number of foals produced and you don't have to remove the horse from their herd or send them to slaughter.
Sometimes simple solutions are the hardest to get implemented.
Cheers
The sad thing is that all horse issues are human error :(
I wish our country was left natural like it should have been.
What an interesting discussion,and a tragic one.I have watched film footage on the tube about horse abatoirs and it is extremely distressing.I find the slaughter of all food animals ghastly and wish there were global guide lines in place based on humane treatment including during the transportation of live animals to slaughter.The castration of selected stallions in the mustang herds would have a beneficial effect in time.
Here in Spain I witness horrible things;abandoned horses,dehydrated,starving,tied to trees and left to die.Here we also have a fairly recent law of equine micro chipping but it does nothing to deter abuse!The law (the Seprona)simply does not funcion here in this respect.If the owners are gypsies,they do not press charges as the owners supposedly have no money to pay the fines.I would like to see abusers licences to deal in horses nulified the moment an abused horse is reported.Policing all this is of course nigh on impossible.
Here,they used to ensure the quality of their horses by having a military stud(arab,hispano,english,all thoroughbreds) standing in selected villages in every province periodically during the year to cover local mares for a token sum of money thus ensuring the quality of the foals.I believe this is no longer in action and the over reproduction nowadays of poor quality horses is widespread.In every town and village there are abused/malnourished horses and they continue to breed year after year even with mares who are too old and in generally poor condition.Sad.The omnipotent human being is of course reproducing with little thought as to the consequences..
Sasafras
It is a shame that countries let their animals suffer through neglect as well as ignorance. Most modern horses have the blood of the Spanish horse in their bloodline. I have a Peruvian Paso which is from the Spanish Barb, Andalusian, and Jennet. The horse was bred for it's heart and stamina, as well as it's friendly nature. The breed had not changed in over 450 years because of a highly regulated breeding standards and the desire of the wealth horse owners to keep the breed exactly the same. Other breeds have not faired as well. Horse breeding is as much an art as it is a science.
As Monty keeps telling us that his goal is to leave the world a better place for horses, we can do this as well.
If you have a horse rescue group in your area, help support it as best you can. From reading peoples post we are trying to educate people in the humane treatment of animals which includes us humans.
Cheers
Hi there! Yes, this is a very interesting and important discussion. Abigail, that wonderful horse that was lucky to come to Monty's place after having been saved from the slaughter house is the best example of a horse that should have a life instead of being slaughtered just because she reacted to mistreatment of us humans. I find your statements pro slaughter houses quite brave - and honest on one side. On the other side I thinks socalled "unwanated" horses should not be put out of their owners way by being slaughtered. If I decide to buy or rescue a horse I should at the same time think of the moment when the worst case happens and for some sad reason my horse (and partner) cannot be ridden or "used" anymore. Will I decide on that happy day of when I buy him or her really to slaughter him if he is not sound anymore ? shouldn't I decide on that day to care for him then and feed him and love him without "using" him ? And if I doubt I can afford a pensioned horse PLUS a new and fit one I should leave that horse I choosed for buying alone, turn around and look for another expensive thing to pass my freetime.
Yes, their are "human" slaughter houses for cattle and pigs here in Germany. I prefere to buy the meet for our restaurant just from them. The farmers who make part of that organisation bring their animals to that slaughter house themselves and the drive is never longer than three hours in a row. The animals will then slepp a last night together in their usual groups, not being separated and then line up to be killed - not in a hurry and not pushed around hardly and quickly. They are shot in less than a second etc.... they have also been living in respectful environment and have been fet good stuff. I do prefere that meet for our restaurant and comunicate that to our customers, yes, but that doesn't make me think, horses that are not wanted should be slaughtered too. That's too easy for irresponsible socalled horse owners. Yes, I agree, their should be an insurance for every horseowner that is a must which cares for an eutanasia if nessessary. Well, who knows how many each of us here in the Uni has saved some horses life just by showing some desperate horse owner the better way and help to understand his or her horse which then got a new chance and has not been sold or slaughtered ? I think, that is the best way. VioBerlin
I haven't read every post on here, as it's getting late and I don't have time tonight...but I'd like you all to know that our American slaughterhouses are NOT all "humane" or "regulated". It's not anyone's fault for not knowing the cold hard truth, but knowing it sure changes your outlook. If you ever saw a video of a huge (and often dull) butchers knife slicing open the throat of a helpless animal (while the butcher is swearing and laughing at it) in a dark and filthy facility, and heard it's helpless, pain-filled cries and terrified eyes, you would want all slaughterhouses either closed or cracked down on...HARD. I'd encourage anyone on here to watch the documentary, Earthlings. There aren't actually horse slaughterhouses in it, but footage of American slaughterhouses treating cattle, goats, etc the same way they have the horses. Oh...and I might add they were licensed and approved, regulated, kosher, "humane" facilities...cruel caves of hell in reality.
No creature, horse, cow, goat, bird, pig (and I don't even like pigs!), whatever, deserves the wickedly cruel treatment people are capable of. "Righteous people are kind to their animals." It doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, that proverb is plain true. I think it was Gandhi (don't know if I spelled that right)that said you can judge a society by how its animals are treated. Oh boy...that doesn't paint a pretty picture for most of the world, does it?