Hi Dennis
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I love the forum, and agree with everything you have said in your posting. Yes, the different terms used in different countries can be a bit tricky. The one that got me was the Alf Alfa Hay. In Australian that translates to Lucerne Hay :-)
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Yes, a float is a horse trailer. Not sure why we call it a float, because it really is a trailer...
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It would be great to be able to add photos or short video clips.
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I find the issues, suggested solutions and the inspirational stories that everyone provides in the discussion topics really informative and gain a lot from everyone who contributes.
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi Dennis,

Yes, I like the forum as well.
I am living in Holland and can you emagine that I need sometimes my dictionary because of "new words"?
I am a beginner with horseriding. I wanted to be with horses since I was 18 years old, but didn't get the oppertunity. After many, many years, now the time is there and I can ride a horse now from a neighbour and I have had some lessons already.

I am very glad that I found the website of Monty and became a student. I learn a lot from the forum specialy from you and also from Gen and Miriam and offcourse some more students. You all give a lot of information I can use as well. Because of the forum and also the helpdesk I bought the book from my hands to your hands and a dually halter.
Six weeks ago I fell from my horse so I have time enough now to read the book and the questions on the forum and go through the lessons. Sometimes I can give an answer on a question as well.... that's more because I work with my feelings and I have a good feeling for seeing the situation, seeing pictures, if you understand what I mean, then my experiences with horses. I am glad that there are students and some of us are quit regualary on the forum, who give solutions for big and small problems.
In one of my answers I already said that it is good we are reacting on each others questions and that we are keeping doing this. Don't hesistate to ask, because we all have something we don't understand or can't find THE solution. And no question is stupid, it is more stupid to not ask.
So hear I come with my question how do I get a new question on the forum so it comes on the dashboard?
Hopefully we continue with asking and answering questions and yes it is a good idea to have the possibility to put photo's from situations or video.
Good idea Dennis to ask this question.
Kind regards, May.

Hi May,
Thank you for acknowledging Gen, Dennis and myself for the answers from which we learn as much or even more than the ones that ask them do! Putting into words and picking up the right feeling is a great challenge, the good learning.
This forum is great, I never thought I would be part of any forum at all, but this is so good!
To your question above: if you make a new post, it'll appear automatically on the dashboard, just as a new answer to an older post does. So if today you make a new post, it'll be on top of the dashboard, as soon as someone adds a comment, it'll appear again on top.
So good to read that you fullfilled your lifetime dream of horsebackriding, falling seems to be part of the process, please stay safe, wear a helmet. I hope your injuries were not too bad.
Take care,
Miriam

Thanks Dennis for the question. Yes I like the forum discussion and enjoy reading the queries and answers from other horse lovers around the world. I also enjoy responding when I feel I can make a small contribution. Sometimes I fear I respond too much so then try to back off a bit. So many of the problems that come up we have all experienced at some time. I find the answers I get from other forum members help me with my own horses and also concerns I have. Monty's videos are great but once we have seen all of them then it is good to look for additional information of interest and thats where the forum comes for me. Like a number of others I am also recovering from a recent tumble so checking out the forum is a great way to fill in the hours while recouperating.

Hi Miriam,

Thanks, I found it.... I never thought about that to look there.
Yes, I try to be safe... I wore a helmet when I fell off and now I am going to buy myself a bodyprotector.
It takes a little bit longer before I can start again with riding, but what I already said I have time enough now to read and learn more. I go every day to my horse and brush her or shower her. She likes it and for me it is a therapy.
Sorry Dennis, that I am talking about something else now, but you see, the Forum works....
O Maggie, you can back of if you want.... but we wil pull you back in the direction we like to see you and stay there to give us your good advices... if we can't pull you in the right direction we will put you a dually halter on...hihi...
Don't think you give to much responce... every good response is welcome. Thanks for all the responces you alraidy gave.
Kind regards, May.

The Improvements to the Forum have made it easier to follow the new comments. Although it would be nice if there was a title under the names of the Official Forum Monitors. It is nice that everyone gives there opinion and experiences. Very Entertaining and Educating at times. I also enjoy the Mix of Horseman from around the world.

Hi all,

Dennis made me curious as well about the oppinion of the forum.

Is it just the six of us who like the forum and learn from it???? I don't believe that.... where are you all???
Kind regards.

Here is another one who reads almost regularly the messages... I find it interesting to hear the opinion of the others and the links we get to extend our knowledge.

Hi May
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Thank you for the compliment :-) I also really like reading Dennis's and Miriam's responses to the questions too. I have learnt so much from them and everyone else who contributes.
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Like Maggie, sometimes I worry that I respond too much. But I really enjoy participating in the forum and can't help myself :-)
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There is such a great knowledge base here. It was a real surprise to be mentioned along side Dennis and Miriam as I have such high regard for them. Their advice is always so well grounded.
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi all of you,

On the 22nd of july I posted my 1st question. Thanks to Miriam who explained what to do.
For me this question is very important and it is very difficult to understand what to do.
Can somebody of you please read this question and give me advice on this. When you read the question you will understand it.
I called it eyes on eyes. I had one responce and I already did her advices and did it again.. and again... but still...... I don't understand it.

Thanks for helping me, kind regards May

Hi May,
I read your post "eyes on eyes" and thought I'd answer here.
When you work with the Duallyhalter, you establish between the horse and yourself a communication, first with pressure on the trainingline over the nose, later with only your bodylanguage, like "rocking" the horse back and forth. Then you can increase the distance between horse and you by taking a step back, looking the horse in the eye in a soft manner, to prevent him from stepping forward.
You can try this in front of a mirror, looking very intently or softer into your own eyes and feel the difference.
Let us know if you got the picture, watch the lesson again, trying to see when Monty uses this technique.
Hope this helps,
Miriam

Hi Miriam
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Thanks for clearing that up. I read your post too May, but didn't know what to say. I had re-watched the video and have been doing a bit more reading, but I think Miriam has hit the nail on the head here. What she says makes sense.
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That has also given me some insight into why I am not being as effective in my Dually work. I will put try to put this into practice now.
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Thank you very much :-)
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi Gen,
You will be doing a lot of Duallywork in your Intro-course with Lynn, so you'll have plenty of opportunities to deepen your skills in that direction.
I think you have "From my Hands to Yours", please re-read chapter 7 about the "wonders of the Duallyhalter", the whole procedure is described there in a very clear manner.
The looking in the eye part is only to keep the horse from following you, when you step back and he's supposed to stand still.
If you want your horse to come towards you when you step back, you should look somewhere around his knees, keeping track of his movements to be able to release your pressure as soon as he comes forward. This way you can become more subtle every time.
Have fun!
Miriam

Hi all - thanks for your lovely and amusing comments May. They made me feel much better and I had a good laugh too. I think one of the hardest things when making a response on Forum is that when trying to help someone out with our advice we have no idea of their experience. We therefore tend to make the comment on the assumption that they are seeking our advice through lack of experience with the specific issue they are having problems with. I think even experienced horse people occasionally come up against things that they are having problems with and they may learn from others who are less eperienced. Hence it is useful to put the "feeler" out to see if any other of Monty's students have experienced the same problem whether we are extremely experienced or just novices. If we feel we can contribute to this problem in some small way then we respond as we wish to help that person out and we should be encouraged to do so. Naturally the experienced person is then in a position to accept or reject the advice given. However if they choose to reject the advice I think they need to perhaps keep that to themselves or otherwise be very thoughtful in how they respond. If Forum is to work effectively I think all students need to be encouraged to contribute and have no fear of being "stomped on" for trying to help. I think Rudi can appreciate what I am saying here. It has been great to see you contributing again Rudi as you were quiet for awhile there! We do need to always keep in mind that we are all different and our horses are all different so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. We will naturally have different views despite our admiration for Monty and his techniques.

Hi Maggie,

That was realy well spoken.I understand excectly what you mean and you hit the nail with the hammer (or something like that).
So Rudi join the group again!!!! All questions and advices/suggestions are welcome.
Kind regards, May

Sorry guys if I seem so harsh. I just found out my sister is dieing and only has weeks now. It's been hard.
All of my comments come from Monty's book, no feeding and no whips.
Sorry if I offended. I have been training horses for over 40 years and have not always used the no harm method, old school was there and I had to re-learn.
They say there is no one worse than a reformed smoker, that's me a reformed horse trainer.
I won't be commenting anymore, sorry!

Star, so sorry to hear about your sister.Please don't give up in making comments. At the barn I have my horses at, I have discussions with my coach all the time about differing ways to handle horses.She is very open to this even when I have attended clinics with trainers with opposing views to hers.After all, the goal is to learn to understand horses and to think for ourselves and advocate for our horses ,not just follow some trainer with total blind faith.At our barn we are starting a club where we view videos of various trainers.We realize that as we watch and think about their methods that it will cause some controversy but in those discussions we will be forced to think about what we do and why and that is a good thing because so much that we do with hoses depends upon the context we find ourselves in and no trainer, book or video can cover every situation one might find themselves in.

Star,

Plse don't cut your communication line here! We all understand and feel for you in regards your sister. There's nothing tougher than losing one you love, especially a little at a time. Proud of you for recognizing that you could learn a better way, and hope that when you feel up to it, you rejoin the discussions. I learn the most from folks like you that have far more experience than I do.

I love the forum as it is a free flow of help and discussion for folks that are as horse-obsessed as me :). Keep it coming!

Hi Cheryl,
Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate them so much, yes it has been hard.
My feelings are very strong right now because of them. I was raised on a franch (farm & ranch) and some of the things I saw I wouldn't want anyone to see. One of the dogs wouldn't preform correctly and was shot on the spot. If the horses didn't do what was requried of them they were sold at auction, didn't matter if one was attached or not.
I love animals so much, no matter what creature the may be, I even hand feed skunks and deer, they know I wouldn't harm them and have always been my solace.
I was in a serious car accident 7 years ago and lost everything, speech, abilities to function and my doctors told me My Star saved my live as I saved hers. I cannot explain my feelings for her, she is my friend and my solace in times of trouble. She knows this and has helped me to recover far beyond what we thought was going to be possible.
I admire many horse trainers, Monty, Pat Parelli, etc. but for me if one is taking a course from a certain successful trainer and has commited oneself to that course I feel they should see it through, otherwise one could become confused and so would the animal and then accidents can happen, people getting thrown or kicked or bitten.
I have seen horse bites and they are dreadful things to deal with all because someone wanted to feed the horse by hand. The poor horse doesn't know any better and looks for food from people, even little people, and can become aggressive when their desire is not met.
Most horse trainers will tell you put the food in a bucket, put it on the ground and only after giving permission allow the horse to eat, good ground manners.
People and children are no different, good manners today are failing and treatment of all age groups are nonfunctional and deterorating.
It's sad to watch or see bad treatment or poor judgement used on any living thing and then the blame is misguided to the wrong thing/person.
I was at a clinic in May presented by a group who claimed to be naturalhorseman. The instructor could not get a horse to accept a saddle calmly, the owner could, the instructor started to slap the horse very hard, using both sides of the hands, from the whithers to the croup line, including the stomach. I asked him why he was doing this and his answer was, I'm helping the horse to accept the saddle and stirrups. It reminded me of sacking a horse out. I had to leave it upset me too much, the poor horse was showing the whites of her eyes. There was no reason for this. I had seen the owner do wonders with this horse, perfect figure 8's, sidewalking, backing, etc. and do it because she respected and trusted her owner.
So yes, there are a lot of "trainers" out there and there will always be contoversy between them and their methods.
As my daughter and I say there is no perfect way, just a better way and our horse will tell us what that is if we listen.
I trully enjoy discussing horsemanship with others and sharing my experiences with them but only if they have an open mind to a better way and there is always a better way, horses are the best teachers.
We as humans can learn so much just by watching them, they will tell us thier needs and desires. Example: perhaps a horse does not wish to be saddled or ridden on a particular day, maybe they woke up on the wrong side of the stable, so to speak, but the human knows so much more and says but "I" want to ride and the horse says OK but latter changes it's mind. What do we do, we insist and that's when trouble starts and the horse is blamed, stupid thing, too spirited, get rid of it, it's too much horse for you. Maybe what the real problem is the human is too much for the horse and therefore expects too much as most do of people as well.
For me I expect nothing and get everything in return.

My Star - no offence was taken by your comments at all so I am sorry if you thought I was offended. I can assure you I was not however it did seem to be a good opportunity to explain how I felt about forum. Like you I was brought up on an isolated country property and learnt to love and respect animals from an early age. Fortunately for me my father also really cared for his animals however like you I have witnessed much cruelty and wish more people could love animals as we do. You express much of my own thinking above. I can't sell my horses on as I dread them ending up with someone who may treat them badly or in a nackery. I am so happy to have found Monty's Equus University as there is so much to learn from Monty and others. I believe that I do keep an open mind - how else could I be learning so much however somethings such as carrot treats really work for me and I would not change that. When I suggest giving carrot treats of Forum I think it is then up to the individual if they wish to try it or not. Naturally some like you will say "no way" but others may wish to try - that is the beauty of being individuals and having or own views. That is the great thing about the ideas expressed on Forum - we can choose which ones sound as if they may work for us and reject others. From childhood I have used carrot or bread treats to catch horses in the field or as positive re-enformement when training. Its really worked for me and I have never had any problems about horses biting. Horses do not tend to bite if they are carfully treated and handled. I recently purchased a shetland pony for my grandchildren and I agree with you there. I would certainly not feed him carrots from my hand - different type of horse and different situation. I do not know much about the Clicker method of training horses but I gather it is entirely based on carrot treats for positive re-inforcement. This method is mentioned in Temple Grandin's book "Animals make us Human" which I have recently enjoyed reading.

I also agree with you that trying to follow a number of different horse trainers at the same time would be extremely confusing for both us and our horses but I do think it is possible to learn things from each different trainer which we can then incorporate into our own personal style of training. None of us can be exactly like Monty even if we try so hard to be so as he is a different individaul. Please continue to contribute to forum as your contributions are so valuable.

My Star so sad to hear about your sister. Itis such a tough time for you and I do hope your love of horses helps you through this time.

I love the forum! Its has been so helpful to me. I like that you are able to see all different options on subjects. I also like that its in writing so that you can reread answers and that you learn from other peoples answered questions. I do wish there were more features to the forum that have already been mentioned.

I find the forum very helpful. Its great to get advice from people who are learning from the same philosophy. I do not always get advice that is based on trust and understanding, so being able to get help here is great. Also I love when people share ideas and experiences! I agree that it would be nice to share pictures as well.

Plus - fair enough My Star. I will NOT mention carrot treats again on this Forum. Apologies to everyone for doing so in the past. Thank you for pointing out my error here.

I just wanted to help you all understand something, I never followed one particular trainer. Over the years I have attended many courses given by many different types of horse schooling and universities, I have my certifications in lots of different schoolings.
My 55 years of being around horses has taught me much, as well. I have been training for over 40 years and have enjoyed every moment.
I have learnt much and taken much from the trainers, put it into my personal philosophy on training and come up with my idea of animal training.
Monty is great but so is Pat Parelli. I have seen Pat take a young, hot blooded filly that no one would go near and put his arms around her head to hug her and you could see the love in his eyes, the filly knew this and within moments she would do anything he asked of her. Monty has great respect for him and other genuine trainers, as I do.
When I first resuced My Star she had never been handled by a human, only beaten because she would not allow a halter, of any kind, to be put on, she had scares.
I waited patiently for her to come to me and the time spent was well worth it. She now comes to me for support and saftey. When the deer come she looks for me as if to say am I safe?
I'm sorry Maggie. I have seen little people have bad bites and almost loose thier fingers because of hand feeding.
I have used the reward system as well, for some horses that's all that seems to work for them, it's their personally to be motivated by food, others are easily bored and need to be kept busy or they tune you out, etc. Learning to read a horse is a gift but can be learned if the motivation is there.
For me I stopped hand feeding after I first read Montys book because I saw a pattern setting in with some of the the horses I was training.
I didn't want any of the many small children I have around to be hurt.
From each horseman I have been taught by I have walked away a better person with more knowledge than I had before.
There are no errors, Maggie, just learning experiences, right.
Oh yea, I'm sorry if anyone misunderstood about the cruelty I witnessed, I assure you it was never caused by my dear father, he was the most gentle man I have ever known, along with my husband.
If anyone is interested in my experiences with horses I'll be posting about the different fields of work and training I had received and preformed, might be interesting to those who are just starting out.

Hi MY STAR and Maggie,

I am so glad to read this all. Now we can talk again.....
That's so good about this forum.

Yes, I am interested in your experiences MY STAR, because I am a beginner and I want to learn, learn, learn.

By the way, did it already work out with your dually? I am curious how you find your way to "deal" with it.

Kind regards, May

Hi May,
The problem with the dually halter for My Star was not the halter itself, I have used it with her on many occations. The problem itself was the NOISE and how My Star was reacting to that. I had wondered if others had the same problem and how they had handled it.
I did receive some very good advice from some and appreciated the suggestions but they missed what I was asking, I guess. I didn't need to know how to halter but if others had thier horses experience the same problem, NOISE.
I wanted others opinion if they too would have liked a lesson on the UNI on how to introduce the dually!!! That was all I wanted, a simple answer only.
I'm so use to using a rope halter, no noise, and then this halter with all the buckles and rings comes along and My Star had not been desensitized to that particular sound before and it frightened her.
I have continued to desensitize her to the sound. First by leaving it in her large stall, hanging it from the above rafters. Then laying it on her bridge in her large pasture, so she could do with it as she wished and she did, she picked it up and carried it to the far end of the fence line. Next I attached it around her neck so she would get use to the noise, under supervision, so no harm could come to her by getting it caught in something.
Now the NOISE does not bother her.
I usually do this with anything new for her, she's young and inexperienced and needs to build her confidence.

Hi May and My Star. Thank you both very much for your contributions here. So pleased that you have now solved the "noise' problem with the dually "My Star" I did misinterpret your initial question as it seemed a bit like the problem I had with my young mare hence the reason for me responding. But it wasn't. I bred my mare and broke her myself. As she was handled by me since she was first born - I even pulled her out of her Mummy - she is very different to My Star. She is not afraid of anything much. She simply decided she didn't like the dually halter after I had used it on her for a few times. She is very bright and I guess she managed to work out that the dually gave me more control over her. This all meant that she decided not be caught if I was going to catch her with the dually. She had always been so easy to catch previously that I simply decided to revert to the rope halter to catch her with and put the dually on later. This works fine. Like you I have used a rope halter since I watched a Pat Parelli demonstration about 15 years ago. I still use the rope halter the majority of the time just resort to the dually when some discipline is required. I see the dually as very much my security blanket for when things go a bit wrong. It is excellent for teaching a young horse ground manners and respect. I have only had lmine for 6 months but I am so impressed by it. I have just purchased my sister-in-law one as she is a horse breaker and trainer. I know it will help her out as she uses Monty's techniques in training but didn't possess a dually.

Hi MY STAR,

Good to hear that things worked out now.
I am going back to your question fearness for the dually halter and you will read there what I did with the dually.
I can't give you more advice, but just to tell you what I did......
Cheers.

Hi Maggie,
I much prefer the rope halters when training because I am most comfortable with it. I too used Monty's method using my rope halters, for two years, then I could afford a dually and started to use that.
I thought it would work best if I used the dually with Monty's method. If I don't have to I don't want to, do you train using your rope halter and are you successful?
I would be more comfortalbe using what I'm use to and if I'm comfortable she'll be comfortabe, right?

I wanted to share with anyone who might be interested in something about feeding our horses.
Eleanor Richards has a posting on a web site about this and I wanted to share it with you all.
I have used this sight and find it most informative on a lot of subjects.
It's under horsetrainers, it's great, all kinds of methods and information on things one would never think of on our own.
Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Thanks for the web site. Very informative

Cheer

Thanks My Star and Dennis - I did a general search and found some information and all good stuff but am not sure if this is the exact Eleanor Richards web site you are both referring to. Could either of you please give us the exact location as I am sure everyone will benefit from this. Response to your question re the rope halter My Star. I used the rope halter for training prior to purchasing the dually. Like you - I am familiar with it and it works fine in most cases however the dually is better when things get tough. I still use the rope halter most of the time but when I need a bit more support I transfer to the dually. Example if I am helping someone out by loading a difficult horse onto a trailer (float) then I will use the dually halter. I would have used the dually more for training my mare if I had known about it sooner!

Mmm--just re read your question above My Star. I do believe Monty's methods work better with the dually than the rope halter.

Hi My Star and Dennis,

Is this the web site adress of Eleanor Ridchards you are talking about http://www.thewayofhorses.com/ ???

Thanks.

Sorry, I mean Richards instead of Ridchards