Ok so here is some background in my situation.
Two months ago we put a deposit on a filly who was still at her mothers side for our 7 yr old son. He loves horses like his mom but is very nervous so we decided to get him something small to start. Mom and dad are both approx 10hh.
A few weeks ago we got a message from the lady who was holding the filly for us until weaning saying she had too many horses and needed and needed to sell a few. Since we were buying the baby she'd give us the mare for $100 if we could pick them up right away. The mare has just been a broodmare, is 10 yrs and has had limited training. The horse market here is pretty terrible so the price didn't really set off any warning bells given she's 10 and not broke to ride. I figured she'd end up sent for meat after we took the filly so for $100 we decided to pick her up.
We were told she was a sweetheart and when we went to pick her and baby up it seemed to be the case. She led well and seemed out. A little jumpy when being touched but I figured that was because she didn't know me. We got her home and I turned her and baby out in the round pen. And yes I took off mom halter. It was a mistake I won't make again with a new horse but it's done now.
She will not let me catch her and I am and a complete loss as to how to get her halter again. She desperately needs her feet done, and she has had rain rot/rain scale on the back of her legs under the fetlocks. From watching her eat I also suspect she really needs her teeth done as well.
I'm at a loss on what to do. You can tell she wants to be near you because I will go and just sit with her and she'll come closer but the minute you move a hand to touch her she flinches and runs away. I can't help but think she's been hit at some point.
My question is can I attempt join up with a horse that has a foal at her side? Also I. All of Montys videos the horses are haltered prior to starting join up. If we successfully join up will I be able to get a halter on her so we can address her medical needs? If she does join up and I reach to rub her head and she runs away do I start over and send her away again?
Thanks in advance. Normally I would just take my time but I need to get her health sorted which means I need a halter on her.
Hello, I have some questions of you. #1 The area that you have placed mom and baby into; How large is it? #2 How old is the baby? #3 Do you have another area that would be suitable to contain a horse nearby? Do I since urgency along with frustration now that you NOW have mom and baby at your place?
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.You have done a really nice thing by getting the second horse for the filly to grow up with. I see it as more natural condition for both mom and baby. Also, for your boy as he watches the development of the filly and the mare under your care. This can be a win-win situation for all.
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.The first order of business is to focus on the mare and get her to follow your lead. Remember, that most horses are followers of strong leadership, but if they feel that there isn`t a leader present, they will take- on that skill. Set-up your environment to make your leadership happen. I would suggest doing very small steps that would march you toward getting the mare to come to you every time you enter her area. My first thought would be to allow her feed, to be your partner in teaching. This will help her to focus on your presence in her area and what that might mean to her. You represent her getting fed in this new environment. Ideally, this should be brought about after they are separated as the baby enters into being weened from the mother.
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. I would start with 5 piles of hay scattered around her paddock. As she moves toward the first pile, allow her a few mouth fulls and then ask her to move on the next pile. When you ask, nod your head forward and raise a training wand to re-enforce the request. You now place yourself in a position of leading the mare from behind while demonstrating leadership of a higher ranking, in the herd of two. This is exactly what horses do with each other, in a herd setting, while grazing. So this will be perfectly natural for them. Over time, she will be very accepting of you presence and show a willingness to join forces with you as you move her from pile to pile. Then your world will start to change with a little MORE direction and control.
The next step will be directed toward the baby; Follow the above plan. BTW, weening is much easier on all, when the two are separated, but can still see each other.
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.This solution came off of the top of my head and represents just ONE way of dealing with your situation. There are some very gifted people on this forum, and I would recommend listening to their thoughts also.
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.You will get through this first step that might seem monumental right now.
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All the best
Bud
Hi luv_for_horses, what's your name? Congratulations on your decision to bring in this mare!
Every time I read one of Bud's answers I smile about how simple it is!
Great advice here!!! I've been around a couple of untouched horses and foals, I'd like to pick up on Bud's thread. Horses have there zones of awareness, first the awareness zone, where your mare will notice your presence but keeps doing what she did. If you come closer, you enter the decision zone, where she has to decide for herself whether to stay or go with you so near. The inner zone is the pressure zone, where horses go into pressure, to prevent a preditor from ripping. They'll try to position themselves in such a way that they can defend with striking or fighting from a preditor. It's important that you find out where the decision zone of this mare starts, so how close can you get, before she strarts to take off, even if you don't try to touch. Now every time you enter the decision zone, put some pressure on her, so she moves her head towards you. Acknowledge this by retreating slightly. This way you're starting to set up a little contract: when you face up, I will retreat. She'll start teaching you to retreat... It's a fine line and takes a lot of patience, but the result is, that she knows you're not going to hurt her and she knows the rules you've set up for your little herd of two (plus foal). Now you can start playing with how close you can come, can you ask her to move a step, always acknowledging her tries by retreating, even only with a weightshift towards the leg that is further away from her. You might want to watch some of Anna Twinney's youtube video's to help you get the picture of this system. When you manage to step closer to her, just "paint" her in the air with the back of your closed hand, to show that it's your plan to touch her, but don't touch her yet...
She'll sense your intention, might try to get away, but using your little contract you can pick up where she left off quite soon. Acknowledge every try, even the smallest, you'll see it pays off, she'll start to trust your intentions. For the actual first touch at the whithers (where horses groom eachother), you might introduce the back of a wand as an extension of your arm, if that feels safer.
Always retreat after getting even the smallest try from her. Take a step back, relax, breathe out, and watch for signs like licking and chewing, she'll have to digest what's happening.
Short sessions are best, always end on a positive note and come back later.
Like Bud suggested, get her into a smaller enclosure first, give her plenty of time to get used to it, always hay and water, she'll start to trust her new surroundings. Don't hesitate to ask whatever questions come up!!!Stay safe and please keep us posted!
Miriam
three awareness zone...
Hello Luv for horses; Nicely said Miriam and so very, very true. After re-reading what you wrote about of your situation, I think that I might suggest that you continue to take a chair into their paddock area and sit with them as their natural curiosity boils over and brings about the join-up of you two. I would up the ante somewhat with a tray of grain that you keep close to your body while in the chair. You will need a training wand with you to maintain POLITENESS by both mare and baby as they come into your circle of energy. Allow them to have a bit or two of grain and then ask them to leave your area, with the intention of asking them to return a few minutes later. POLITENESS is the order of the day. This exercise will place you in the position of LEADERSHIP as the exercise develops into a ritual. Do not be surprises if the baby is the first to come forward. It really doesn`t make a difference because this plan will be effective either way. This whole procedure is called THE CHAIR CHALLENGE and will bring about an atmosphere connectiveness. Food is the key, but curiosity in some horses can be overwhelming. So you will probably have two very strong forces working in your behalf. The main item that you must address is a calmness while the horses are in your field of energy. Remember your intention with this whole coming together process will be about the horses feeling safe while in your presence. YOU MUST CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. SECONDLY, YOU MUST THINK THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS, so that you are mentally prepared. You are dealing with a 55 million year old flight reaction in these animals, so your fore-thought prior to entering into the paddock must be in place. I believe that you can accomplish this . It might take a few days, but as you will find out; YOUR ON HORSE TIME.
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.I would wait until your connection is solid and you have been able to deal with the mare medically before trying to ween the baby. The weening process will bring about separation anxiety between the mare and baby and you have enough to deal with at the moment.
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I would try to continue to move the horses with the 5 piles of scattered hay exercise as you are taking the role of leadership in both instances. This should bring about respect and focus on you as their leader. When you have those two items going for you, your world gets easier.
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All the best and please keep us informed.
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Bud
Luv for horses, we'll done your feel at the time to take the mum too will bring you so much joy as the foal grows.
I won't add much to what the team have said, but study Monty's lessons closely. At the end if each lesson take the challenge so we can see your progress.
I'll go along with Buds advice, but to answer you initial question can you join up with the mate with foal in tow, yes this is possible, but your equus language must be very clear and only focused on the mum. The foal will follow the mums lead.
Please study the many join up videos, spooky kadina and the section in Monty's demonstrations, watch not only Monty, but also the horse facial expressions so you can recognise it in the mare.
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Look forward to seeing your progress.
Mel x