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My Join-Up® Experience

I'm not getting the equus signals

Hello!

I am new here, and have been reviewing join up over and over again.. I have a 12 year old mare, that was feral when my husband bought her, we only wanted a broodmare and she was the best conformed of the bunch and she had already had a foal. She was unapproachable and even after 6 years she is still the same. Takes 3 people to bail her up in the pen and catch her, once caught she is easy to handle, but she tense the whole time and " grows a hand".
This mare's only contact with humans before us was to be chased into a crush and then some moron got on her back, then her yearling filly was taken from her and she was turned out on the hills again. that is by no means the best start anyway.
Long story short, I have been trying 'join up' with her, first time she went well, although she wouldn't put her head down, but I got the other three signs, after licking and chewing she stopped and turned towards me and took a couple of steps. I did the approach inviting her to join up, If I turned her in a tight circle she followed, but not when I walked away, however she let me got straight up to her and catch her..That was a big deal for me. I went out to see her in the paddock later on and she came up and I caught her and she took a piece of carrot from me.. I was just about walking on air!!
However next day, no way was she coming near me.. So I coaxed her into the corral and did another join up session, It took longer but once again I only got the 3 signals before she' invited me in"..
Next day still can't get near her out in the paddock...
I coaxed her into the corral again and she walked straight up to me I THINK I STUFFED IT UP THEN! Cos I did another join up session and it took over 1/2 an hour, the 3 signals again.
Last session she only gave me 2 signals and I had to go up to her in the end..
Basically I think all I am doing is teaching her to run away from me.
Is she resisting join up, because she doesn't want to change her way with me after all this time??? And am I just making a bad situation worse and leave her alone??
Apart from the not putting her head down, my yard is a bit small to make her canter away, just a fast trot. Could that be the problem as well? Also is it because she has kind of called the shots for so long? namely gets all her needs taken care of without giving anything back
I'm feeling a bit useless and depressed about it atm.
Both of her foals were friendly and easy to catch, The mare is friendly towards me, calls out to me, follows me around ( at a distance though).. I keep going over the join up lessons and consciously think about my body laguage while I am attempting join up. Any suggestions?? please!!!

Dennis
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed

Lynn
I have read your message a coupe of times and it occurs to me that you may be stopping the join up process a little early. When horse lowers their head and licks and chews they are signaling to you that they are submissive and want to be with you and you can be the leader. She is giving you everything but the head and you need to have her give you that signal. So when you repeat the join up and go to her before you have all the signals you are basically equals so she does let you catch her because she is your equal and is allowing you to catch her. Next day you are back to the start. She is in her paddock and she is the boss not you.
My suggestion would be to catch her and just groom her for a half hour or so then walk her around and make her back up and stand. Do not try join up yet.. You want her to forget the previous join ups. I would handler as much as you can for a week or so then do a join up after grooming her. Do the five circles both ways then turn her back again. You have to be sure you keep her moving at a good clip. Don't let her walk keep her going until she starts giving you the signals. When she puts an ear on you and starts to lick and chew reverse her direction and let her give you the signals again and hopefully she will start to lower her head. Once you get the head keep her going a couple of more laps allowing her to make smaller circles then put your arm across your chest lower your eyes and let her stop and turn to you. Walk towards her looking at her chest not her face and arch and draw her to you. Once she comes toward you stop and give her a good rub on the face but do not look at her. At this point you want to do your follow up and have few follow you. If you do figure eights you will have her moving left and right changing directions. This will reinforce the follow up. Stop every once in awhile and give her a good rub. At this point I would put the lead rope on her halter and just walk with her at a stroll. You want her to relax and be with you without stress.
Don't give up and quit too early. I know that you are going to be successful if you are patient

Cheers

star
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed

Lynn,
The best thing you could do right now is use a video of yourself doing join-up with this horse and compare it with Monty's.
As he says, look in the mirror, you caused the problem and now you have to fix it.
I used comparison with my filly and realized my problems right away and was able to fix them.
Try this my dear and see if it works for you, OK.
Ronda
PS: Whenever I do anything with STAR I have it videoed now and it helps so much.

Alecia
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

While I was at the Intro course last week in CA, we did join up with a horse named Smokey. During my join up with him(and with other students) he wouldn't drop his head or make a smaller circle. For some horses two or three signals are as far as you can get with them, at least at this time. You should reward any little try, if she just drops her head an inch take that. Also after sending her around five times in both directions and turn her back to the original direction you should bring her all the way down to a comfortable walk, just keeping her moving. Taking deep breaths and breathing out so she can hear you helps calm them down. During this third direction if you have trouble getting the 'head down' signal you can use your hand and wave it at her to get her moving again (like the claw) and then slowly bring your arm to the center of your body, this often will bring a horses head down and bring them back to a walk. But like I said it is harder for some horses to give you that sign. Also for follow-up it is way easier for a horse to follow you for a small circle in both directions. A lot of horses will 'get stuck' if you try follow-up in a straight line. As for catching your mare in the field, as monty says 'have your horse catch you'. If you go out with the intention to catch her, she will more than likely avoid you. If you go out to catch a different horse or muck out for example she will be more curious and more likely come closer. I agree with Dennis you may want to take a few days and just groom her or something, it gives her the idea that being with you is a pleasurable thing. If you do a join-up every day with out raising the bar the horses will often get bored of it, its like knocking on your neighbors door and having the same conversation everyday. For some horses it is ok but for others it gets old really quick. It may take some time to see big results especially with a horse like yours, just treasure all her baby steps and sooner than you know it she will surprise you. Bust of luck.

lynn486
Hello!

Thank you all for your comments and help, I was thinking along the same lines, stop trying the join up and just catch her in the arena..I told my husband about my 'failure' and he said, "I'll take a bet with you that I can catch her in the arena in 5 mins".. So he tried, took him about 7 mins but he caught her without any 'chasing around".. So then he let her go and told me to come in and catch her. Joy of joys, she took a few steps towards me and invited me in almost straight away.. So we did a process of letting her go and then catching her again.. She was very cooperative.. So at this stage will keep that up..I didn't expect miracles with a horse like her, she has 12 years of set ways to change.. But I am happy with what we have atm. Will keep you all posted. Is there a 'gallery' here where we can post pictures? I'd like to show you this mare.