Hi all,
I am wondering how it works for a horse with licking and chewing when you are not doing Join-Up.
I looked in the book from my hands to yours and Monty is talking there about licking and chewing that the horse is communicating etc.etc... (if you want to read it,see page 45 right side).
This morning I was massaging, brushing and showering Renske (her pre-weekend treatment, yehyeh...) and she was licking and chewing.
This is not the first time she is doing this. There were more times, she is licking and chewing when I brushed her, sometimes she closed her eyes and put her head down as well.
Do I have to see licking and chewing in the same way as what Monty says when you are doing a Join-Up?
Can somebody tell me if I am right or is there an other expaination?
Thank you,
May.
I do notice all my horses lick and chew when I am messaging them or when they are just coming to me to say hi. They also lower their head and relax sometimes. I see this mostly with my 3 yr old(Almira) actually, my gelding(Gabriel) is slow to connect with people and even though he has come a long was he is still more reserved them my girls are. My little 2 yr old(Rowen) is at her challenging stage at the moment and is more curious with finding out what she can get away with, But my 3 yr old really bonds and is very willing to trust me.
Hello May and Almira
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I think that the licking and chewing is a significant gesture in the horse's communication with us during Join-Up, training and our interactions in general.
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An old horsemen I know told me once that when I am training my horse to do something new, I should wait until the horse licks and chews before repeating the lesson or moving onto another one as this indicates his or her acceptance of the task. This was a long time before I came across Monty Roberts.
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In my limited experience, I have found that when I have been working with my horses on something new, like crossing a Western Bridge or Loading in the Float (Trailer), that I experience the normal resistance at first, but when the horse is doing what I ask and I allow him to rest and he licks and chews, its seems to be clear sailing from there on - like he has accepted what we are doing as being OK.
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I don't know, but there must be something to it...
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When I came across Monty Roberts I was quite amazed to hear him talking about the licking and chewing the way he did - I was facinated to hear is explanation of this gesture and to see it repeated over and over again by all those different horses during Join-Up.
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So, I think its a good sign when they lick and chew when we are working with them or just hanging out. And I think it means the same thing whenever they do it, that they are relaxed and communicating to us that they eat grass and cannot be afraid when they are eating.
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You guys are deffinately doing something right for your horses for them to be reacting to you like that :-)
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See you later,
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Gen
Hi May, Almira, Gen
When training a horse, it's very useful to wait for this moment of acceptance, before repeating or even going to the next lesson. What I find very helpful too, is waiting for the horse to exhale, like a sigh, after something he might have found difficult.
The trotter I'm riding at the moment had his difficulties backing-up under the rider, nobody ever asked him to do so with the sulky. As he started to understand what was asked of him, I let him stand still for approx. 3 seconds, and here he always let out a breath. Since then we speak the same language, he knows what to do when I ask him to back-up, and I allow him to rest. Licking and chewing has the same source, in my opinion, the message came through and is accepted. When you massage your horse, he gives himself to your hands and is relaxed, showing it by licking and chewing. Next time watch your horse's breath, I'm almost sure it's lets out a deep breath as well!
Miriam
Hi Almira, Gen and Miriam,
Thank you for your responce.
When I read this and going back in my memories of 6month working with Renske I think I see progress.
Not only me, but also Renske. I am going to understand Renske and she is more comfortable with me.
When I am coming to the barn, I am always going first to Renske and then she makes that dark buhbuhbuh sound (I don't know how you call it in English). I give her my full attention, stroke her and give her my love and tell her how glad I am to see her.
The other day the owner said, "when we sit here for a cup of coffee and talking, Renske can see us, she puts her head throught the half open door and starts whinnying. You are the only one where she is doing this with".
In the barn I can see her licking and chewing.
Ha... can I be proud now? Like she is calling me... "here I am and I like to have my brushing treatment"? I am always saying to her when she is whinnying, "yesyes, in a minute I am coming..."
When I started 6 month ago to get Renske out of her stable, she didn't want that. She stood there on the lead and it took her a few minutes to decide if she wanted to come with me. Now when I come to her stable, she puts her head down for me to put her halter on and when I go to the other door, that's outside, she already starts to turn in her stable towards the door. When I come in, I let her come to me, I look at her and turn half my back to her, head down and she comes to me and stops nose to my shoulder.
I can't remember if she was licking and chewing or breathing when it all starts, but I think she is oké with me.
Now with all the licking and chewing when I am working with her I understand with your explanations how it works and I will give her time to let it sink in.
Sometimes, she is also yawning and has her head down. That's when I sit down next to her and let her relaxe. We talked in a other question about it, that she is taking oxygen and clears her mind (if I am explaining it right).
What I relise now is (and I hope I am right) that for Renske it takes time to let things coming in and she has to absorbe it and let's say to chew on it.
Is it also right that when I am looking to this procedure of taking in, absorbing and licking and chewing when a horse is abused or learns something new, the horse have to, let's say scan the new situation? When he/she is not sure about it he wan't do it? That we have to be pacient and try it over and over again. And something else I am thinking, when in the wild something is new they flee for it and on a distance they are going to look/scan it and let it sink in. Probably they are also licking and chewing. I hope I am not running away with my fantasies, if you understand what I mean. When I am working with Renske she can't run away and doesn't have that time and it needs more time to let it sink in. Am I right? Please if you want, help me with this.
That's what I see what Monty is doing, doing things over and over again in step by step and relaxed.
Sorry for the long story, but sometimes I can't say things in three words and questions and aha's are starting when I read your comments.
I need also time to let sink in..haha...
Kind regards, May
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Hi May,
You seem to be getting the picture, horses do need time to let a lesson sink in.
Information needs to travel from the feet to the brain, this takes time.
What you allow your horse to do, is decide for herself it's OK, you don't rush her through a lesson, so the lesson is digested right there. I think humans work like that too, if you give them time and freedom to choose.
As Monty says, repetition is your best friend if you do it right, and your worst enemy if you do it wrong.
Hope this helps,
Miriam
Hi Miriam
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Thank you for the advice. I read your post yesterday and went out and did some work with Renacer around some poles (which is new to him). I waited and watched for the lick and chew and you were right, he also took a deep breath just before the moment of lick and chew.
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Its quite amazing how we often look but don't see!
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Hi May :-)
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Sounds like you are really doing well with Renske. Keep up the good work :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen
Hi Miriam and Gen,
Also I was more alert to see what Renske was doing, yesterday.
I was brushing her and did something different in the procedure...ha... even the slithest difference Renske is reacting. First she took also a breath and then licking and chewing. I waited.... and went on with the brushing, Renske was oké and putted her head more down.
Yesterday I was watching CENTAUR SERIES Part 6: Dually Work with Abigail (Day 1),and Monty says right in the beginning of the video; "the trustlevel is going up licking and chewing"
How is this possible, sometimes when I watch a video I hear and see things and now I heard Monty for the first time saying "the trustlevel...." And I watched this video a few times before!!!
That's exactly right Miriam, repetition is your best friend if you do it right, and your worst enemy if you do it wrong. Thank you Miriam for helping me.
Hi Gen, I am glad that my question gave you also food for thought. Isn't it amazing how much we learn?
Have a nice day, May
Hi May :-)
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It is incredible what we learn from eachother here. I am now going to re-watch the Centuar Series again to see what I missed :-)
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See you later,
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Gen
Hi all,
This morning I tried to get Renskes head down by massaging just behind her ears. Monty is doing this to lower the head so I thought I give it a try.
Hum.... Renske was reacting on this like; what are you doing now? She went up first with her head, but I tried again and in the end she put her head down. It is such a good feeling. Then offcourse I was looking if she reacted on this by breathing and lick and chew, but no nothing happened.
Oké....
Afterwards I put her in the field and guess what???
Yes, Renske had to give four big breath and started to lick and chew.. ha... well done Renske, you are taking in!!!
Do you think it takes longer to take in for an older horse then for a younger one?
See you later,
May
Well done May,
My Star loves her pole rubbed and it makes her very relaxed as well.
After I groom her I rub her all over and she lets out big breaths.
Aren't they wonderful!!!
Ronda
Hi all,
Ha, that was funny this afternoon.
I went to my parents in law at the farm and they have two horses standing there in there field. They are not theres and for me they are totaly new horses. The lady who rents the field puts every few weeks "new" horses there.
So I thought I will give it a go and see how those two horses would react on me.
I went to the gate and clicked with my tongue to get there attention, they were quite far away from me and eating grass.
They were looking at me and started to eat there grass again. I tryed again, didn't look in there eyes, but the shoulder and turned my back to them. Hands like fists, just near my body. Well the two were looking at me and they did both a few steps forward. And started to eat again. After I tryed for the third time THEY CAME TO ME!!!!in a straight line. Yehyeh...
I turned around and didn't look in the eyes and let them snif my hands and then I stroke them both between the eyes, the same time. Then one started to drink water and gave after that a big breath and started to lick and chew. The other one was still not so sure I think and she was quite alert on what the other one was doing, because she chased her away and wanted all the attention from me. In the end also the other one came back to me and I could stroke that one again.
Isn't it amazing?