Hi. Old fashioned remedy. Bran mash. If he's been like this over a long period then his gut bacteria may need supplementing. I've used live/natural yogurt with success in the past. A human friend of mine, now no longer with us, was born in the days of post war rationing & throughout her life had suffered from tummy troubles - painful. In her late 50s her new doctor suggested yogurt. One portion & the pain went. I think she topped up once a month but it was a problem she had had all her life & that sorted it. Works for my welsh A. Bran mash is really simple. Bran in a bucket. Pour on boiling water, mix thoroughly, add treacle or golden syrup if you want to jazz it up a bit but not strictly necessary. Allow to cool & feed. Neither of my suggestions are expensive. Bran has virtually zero food value so it won't make him fatter but it will slow down his grazing if given regularly & in sufficient quantity as he will be full of bran & not grass. You can put the yogurt in the mash. I use 4 dessert spoons on my 11h 3. Hope this is useful. Cheers, Jo.

Hi Vicci - does sound as if he has some long term nasty bacteria in his gut or some other gut deformity. Shetlands are hard work - mine has to be constantly yarded on dry grass hay to avoid laminitis. Just built him a new shelter shed and new yard and an even smaller field/paddock area so that he can stay out longer. I would try getting him off the thistles, giving him more dry food including some bran and I would check with a vet first but I would worm dose him if he is due. Be careful of adding treacle or molasses as Shetlands tend surfer from laminitis and sugar is a no, no with them. Good luck but it maybe a gut problem that is inherent.

Hi. To clarify, drizzle flavouring into bran mash. Shetlands are intended to survive & thrive in a really harsh environment. I've been to the Shetland Isles & the only tall things are the hills! They have great taste buds & can detect the tiniest amount of sweetness & like us, they adore it. There is a need to ensure quality of life. Yes, their diet needs to be strictly controlled but, we have a duty to make life fun. The balance between calories in & exercise is the human responsibility. A good Shetland weighs about 25% of a Clydesdale. Couple up 4 good Shetlands to a Clydesdale & the ponies will pull the horse irrevocably backwards! Too many of these ponies are regarded as 'cute little pets'. They are, pound for pound, the strongest breed of equine & they are very proud - that's why they can be angry & aggressive when no one takes them seriously. Cheers, Jo.

Hi vicci, sorry you've got this problem.
Both of mine are laminitic & i would suggest a management system like they are on.
Mine live on a very small bare paddock for most of the time; they are allowed out on a narrow track round 2 sides of the field at the moment for between 5 -6 hours in the day, then back into the paddock overnight, they have a field shelter in the paddock.
Feed wise, i give them Top Spec Antilam which is a multi supplement containing a broad spec vit/ min supplement, plus probiotics for the gut bacteria, plus foot supplement.
That makes sure they get all the nutrients they need.
The most important thing is soaking the hay to reduce the soluble carbs / sugar content, you do lose some nutrients when soaking hay hence the Antilam, (there are other cheaper balancers).
Soaking the hay will really help to reduce the weight, but you'd be surprised just how little they need to survive. I would be best advising you to ring Top Specs award winning advise line, they are very good!
You certainly do not want to be feeding any sugar at all & bran is very unbalanced, plus sudden changes in diet will make the bacteria balance in the gut worse!
Regarding worming, it could be small encysted stage red worm emerging causing the problem, but you'd def need to speak to the vet first with his gut so runny.
When my little welsh pony's gut packed up, she was like a hose pipe & the first advice from my vet was to cut out all feed except for the hay. I would as a first step, keep him confined to the shelter & a postage stamp sized paddock, give him a tiny bit of soaked hay & water - nothing else, no grass!

Bit long winded, hope you find some of it useful.

Hi all

Thanks for the interesting comments and advice. I am not keen on a 'bran mash' approach - bran is generally a laxative (I really don't need that!) and as Beryl says it is nutritonally out of balance; however I do agree that there seems to be a gut bacteria issue. I have stopped the thistles as suggested. Beryl - could you explain a bit more about the reasoning for 'no grass'? Are you thinking in case it is worm related/reinfesting? Or are you thinking a process of stabilising his gut/establishing what is causing the issue?

Sorry, I've just reread that and it wasn't clear, I mean a bran mash for him would be like a laxative - any change in diet at all is disastrous with him.

Change in diet is hard for them. Chester is the first Shetland I have had and he is a constant concern I feed him mostly dry grass hay, then a couple of scoops of oaten chaff that has minimum oats in it a small handful of lucerne chaff , founder guard - just a few grains - an even smaller handful of bran half a carrot chopped up then all dampened with water. Don't soak my grass hay unless it has a bit of green in it. He is in a sand area most of the time but gets out for a walk and feed in his small paddock for an hour each day. Currently he is just recovering from being lame which tends to occur each winter hence his confinement and hence me building him a shelter shed. He gets sore hooves as soon as he gets stressed. He is chubby but not too fat for a Shetland and he has a gorgeous personality - he is just extremely prone to laminitis and his hooves have to be constantly trimmed to keep their shape iwith his peddle bone. Sadly my grand daughter doesn't get to ride him very often but she gives him lots of cuddles.

yes sure, the no grass is cos with his gut as bad as it is, he's in imminent danger of getting laminitis, thats where it starts, in the gut.
He needs stabilising asap, so a pre / probiotic would be the first port of call together with the no grass as his gut is racing.
I would be pretty sure it's the amount of grass thats the main problem, encysted small red worm emergence is another possibility, but it's a little early for that.
Having 2 laminitics myself, I'd hate you to have one too as it's life threatening & once they've had it, they are very likely to get it again.
I too feed oat chaff but with no oats & nothing else added.

My 11hh pony was on 1 bottle of Immodium a day to try to settle her tummy, but it wasn't successful as her tummy had packed up, she was at a rough estimate 39 years old, so NOT the same as yours!

Thanks for the input, much appreciated, I will let you know how we get on.

I have the same issue with Barney at the moment, he's been on a high garlic diet and Plantain (Plantago lanceolata) to combat worms this last month, garlic acts as an antibiotic too it would have removed a lot of the good bacteria from his gut. Increase in sugars can also lessen the good bacteria and increase the bad bacteria resulting in the runs, same with us if we eat too much cheese cake it affects the bad bacteria in our gut. Strip grazing on short grass does increase sugars as they are continually grazing on new sweet grass, it would be better to let him have 1 hour on longer grass x 2-3 times a day then the rest of the time in an enclosure with hay. They still need the vitamins from hay so I wouldn't suggest soaking it, this could cause additional issues for a gut that already is having difficulty.
Using bran is good for occasional bouts of diarrhea or possible colic but not for long term issues, they are lacking the right amount of good bacteria and bran could cause further problems.
Put your shetland on this routine 1 hour on longer grass x 2-3 times a day then the rest of the time in an enclosure with hay, along with the probiotics and you will notice a difference within a few days.
I'm using NAF Biotics - Probiotics to put good bacteria back into his gut. You can get it on ebay for around £17 Just type in NAF Biotics Horse Equine Probiotics.
If you'd like to know more about Ribwort Plantain, I've blogged about it, amazing stuff!! Fly repellent, wormer and wound healer :D http://melaniehetfield-equineservices.com/2014/09/24/ribwort-plantain-is-it-growing-in-your-paddock/

Sorry not been around much, having 5 horses on 3 acres has called for some changes of the way they're managed and I've been building pens for them all, so they're off the grass over night. Looking after 6 warmbloods too so it's megga busy at the moment. Thinking about you all!!
Anyone going to Merrist Wood College, Worplesdon, Guildford, GU3 3PE on Sunday 5th October 2014 ?? I'll be there with my daughter.

Mel
x

my point about soaking the hay is to reduce the soluble sugars in it, until his tummy is back to normal that amount of grass is too much if he's on the verge of laminitis & it sounds very likely to me.
The dry hay will have as much sugar as the grass.
Yes, He will still needs a vit / min supplement with probiotics to get it back in balance.
Mel, you are right about the strip grazed short grass being very full of sugar as that makes the grass stressed - anything that stresses the grass results in a whoosh of sugar in it such as frost; people often think it's good to put them on the stubble after hay's been cut & taken off the field but that is very dangerous as once again, it's stressed to hell.
Liked the blog about the common plantain.

Update: George (Shetland) has settled down again. I went for simple first and he seems ok. That doesn't mean I haven't noted all the other advice! e.g. (a) I have noted the Ribwort Plantain info, ty - I have lots of it in the field! (b) I stopped the thistles - that definately helped! (c) I stopped the hay. Now before you all scream at me (lol) it's just too rich for him (I have found this before - hay needs to be introduced to him a bit at a time) - he can cope with a bit at a time and I agree Beryl, if his weight becomes a big issue it needs soaking. Their weight is coming down slowly and I am sure that by spring they will be the weight they should be. There is no sign of laminitis whatsoever in them, never has been but I am always aware of it being a possibility.
:
I fear I misled you all re: the strip grazing (comments noted) I didn't mean I open a strip, close the other down, I meant I slowly increase the paddock size by a small strip at a time so that they only get "new" grass in small doses - the rest of the paddock is grazed right down. I don't want to keep him confined and as you all say it is a balancing act.
:
I also have sheep coming soon to graze the rest down (I have 6 acres, they are confined to about half an acre) and sheep and horses together make for good worm control too. I am worming them all on Tuesday so will keep them in on the yard that day/night so I can monitor what happens!
:
Thanks again for your help.

hi Beryl & Vicci, glad he's settling again. so many paths aren't there. A never ending learning curve.
Do you have Alexander's growing in your area?

Hi. Glad you've found your solution. Can I just clarify a couple of points. Bran is fibre as is straw. Adding fibre to a constipated animal works as a laxative. Giving it to one that is too loose will firm it up. Where hay is too rich, there are products, molasses free based on straw, usually for laminitics. These can be fed as hay / forage replacements. These have the advantage of having vital vitamins & minerals included. I particularly like Dobson & Horrell Mollasses Free but that does have alfalfa added so not suitable for all. It takes Max a long time to work his way through a bucket of that & I am in the happy situation of being able to control his weight this way. I use a sheep loading enclosure to keep him in & off the grass. He can still see & interact with his mates & he has far more room than any stable. I refer to it as 'putting him on room service'. Cheers, Jo.

What are Alexanders Mel?

very good news vicci, I'm so glad!!
I'm doing the same as you re moving a tiny bit of elec fence so they can have a bit of new grass at a time as there's far too much to let them out on the lot baring in mind that i increased very slowly the amount of grazing time on longer grass they had earlier in the year & when they got up to 45 mins before putting them out on the grazed down tracks, bang, they both had laminitis!
The winter is a great time to get the weight off naturally as long as we, the human, don't wade in & overfeed!
Horses naturally put on weight in the spring,usually level off a bit in summer if it's very dry, but not if it's wet!!! Autumn is the other danger period, like now, we've had very dry weather during September, now the rain comes, it's still warm, so the grass will flush, so more weight goes on, then they SHOULD lose weight in the winter so coming more safely into the following spring, that should be the normal metabolism.
If we interfere too much & try to keep their weight the same all year round (as used to be taught) we are causing them problems as obesity is as much of a welfare issue as a horse being underweight.
Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound like a "lecture" aimed at you vicci, just general info!
I aim not to use rugs through the winter so my girls use their energy to keep warm, I do put rugs on if we have a lot of rain though. Usually only on Libby with her Arab coat, but Ebby's Fell coat is far more waterproof & she's fatter, she had to wear one last winter as her abscess on her coronary band recurred & she couldn't run about to keep warm.
I can easily see Libby's ribs, but she still has a crest which is really hard to get rid of.

Yes, What are Alexander's Mel?

Alexanders are a vegetable that have natural properties to them that provide natural warming solutions. It mainly grows around the south east of England near the sea sides :D The horses love it and crave it like mad when it comes through early spring. I'll blog more about it when I get a moment. I've not had to use any chemical wormer for over a year now with giving both the Alexanders and the Plantate. Easy to grow and comes up year after year :D
I'm all for the horses putting weight on coming into winter, I don't put rugs on unless it drops below 5 degrees, then only lightweight ones. Barney just gets a rain rug. Last year though with ad lib hay, they put on a bit too much and it's taken the summer to get them back down as naturally as possible.
I'll let you know when I've done the Alexanders blog.

Sorry - worming now warming!

Beryl - I didn't for one minute feel lectured at don't worry :-) Mel: looking forward to the blog about Alexander's - I wouldn't be surprised if I have them - I've got every other thing (both wanted and unwanted - I have finally cracked the battle of the thistles and the dock leaves!!) in my field and the ponies love it.
:
I never rug my ponies; they have free access to 2 large stables so they can choose to be in or out. I find they spend more time in when it's very hot rather than when it's wet - I am the same so it seems we are a perfect match hahaha

you & me too!!
There are millions of sycamore seeds all over my field this year, I've fenced off part of their night paddock where they are at their worst before i can pick them up but it's impossible to keep them away from all of them.
It was discovered earlier this year i think it was, that they are the cause of atypical myopathy.

http://www.bluecross.org.uk/1752-129008/horse-owners-warning-over-sycamore-poisoning.html

Mine use the shelter mostly when it's hot, but also use it when it's chucking it down, but then they are in a small paddock with the shelter most of the time, so they don't have the choice of sheltering anywhere else then.

I lost my mare 2 years ago. I wormed her cause she was close to being due. She still had diaherra. The vet said to keep worming her. Which made it worse. I ended up losing g her. About a year ago I came across an article about a horse that had colitis. Being that I have it as well and know all the symptoms , when I think back about her symptoms,in convinced that is what it was. There are other signs to look for letting you know they have worms. In a big believer in natural organic care fir horses,as well as for myself. I only worm my horses when they need it with warmers (which is rarely..mostly after winter thaws away and running water gets I to there feed). They are very harsh a horses sensitive digestive symptoms. They also wipe out good bacteria if overused.

I agree, over us of wormers is a big problem