I have 2 3 year olds that I am starting to break, I have had them since they were weaned. They are very herd bound and I am working on that by having 1 in the paddock within sight of the round pen and the other in the pen which seems to working. One mare is going really well, responsive but the lead mare is very difficult to get to concentrate. I managed join up, it wasn't pretty but it was there. She has always been really good with the dually until the other day when she spooked when my son went to bring her in and completely took him by surprise and took off with the the long lead rope attached. Needless to say she stood on it, panicked herself and ended up breaking the clip on the rope. Understandably she ended up with a very sore nose with a big welt on it. I left her for a week to heal and last night brought her back in the round pen and now she is terrified of long lines, and is running through the slightest pressure on the dually. So much so that when she flipped she took the lines from me and proceeded to run around the round pen for about half an hour. Apart from being stunned at her stamina, the only way I managed to catch her was to go and get the other mare and bring her to her. the weird thing was that apart from the initial taking off, she just calmly ran, no bucking or even looking like she was panicked she just would not let me catch her. I can only think that I will have to go right back to the beginning but any advice would greatly appreciated! Sorry for such a long post!
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Hi Karen. Sorry you're having a problem. Yes, I would go back to the start. She's had a big fright but you'll probably find she will regain her trust quite quickly. Be generous with physical praise. Ask very small questions to start with & end the session as soon as you get any positive reaction from her, at least for the first few days. Good luck. Cheers, Jo.
Hi Karen - I agree; right back to Day 1...just take your time
Thanks for your advice, I will start at the beginning and slowly build back up.
Hi Karen and all,
May I suggest you do some good Join-ups first with your young mare, she'll find trust again in you and then everything goes smoother. After that I'd desensitize with a longline, rubbing her all over, still standing next to you with a Dually on a longer leadrope. Most ticklish are the flanks, build up slowly. Now that she's desensitized you can send her away with maybe first one longline on, use your bodylanguage like in Join-up to make her turn, this way she'll slow down easier. From what you describe she had difficulties slowing down after her fright, and pain, so work on slowing her with your bodylanguage.
Things like this do happen, see it as an oportunity for both of you to learn and trust more!
Miriam
Thanks Miriam, yes it's definitely the slowing down that we have the problem with. I have been working on the desensitizing with the longline and you could see her doing lots of thinking. Jumpy at first of course but not as bad as I had thought she would be. Yesterday tried to do the join up and am doing something really wrong, I did the orientation on the middle then led her to 2 o'clock and she was anticipating me sending her off and would not stand still and kept backing off sideways, not allowing me to get into a safe position to step back. I have studied the lessons over and over and just can't seem to get that initial position to send her off. Should I just release and send off hoping that she goes the right way or what should I do. I'm trying not to send her off in a tiz again! Any ideas would be very welcome!
Hi Karen. Relax! Just breath & stop fretting. Do you spend 'quality time' with this filly? Monty emphasises a partnership for horse & handler. Perhaps she needs you to be less focused on progression & more focused on being her partner. Spend time appreciating her for herself. Rub her - a lot. Taking some time to build the foundations will be invaluable later. Good luck. Cheers, Jo.
Hi Karen and all,
I fully agree with Jo, stop thinking and become more intuitive, she's young and still learning....
What I wound do is sit with this Uni and watch the lessons by Florian Oberparleiter (Intrinsic Horse Training) and build a great trust with your filly. These lessons are a gem, you'll find your confidence growing every time you use one of his suggestions!
Please let us know how things develop, we're here to learn with you,
Miriam
Thanks for that, I know I have to take a deep breath and chill. I guess although I have had her and half sister for nearly 3 years and I have been really their sole carer, I need someone to remind me that just because I now think it's time to progress with backing, they need more time to process things and although her sister is taking it all in her stride, she's a different personality. I had watched the lessons by Florian a while back but will revisit them and take notes. I will let you know how things go.
Hi Karen.
The operative word in your third post -- in your answer to Miriam-- is ANTICIPATING. You said your filly was anticipating you sending her off. Horses of course are very smart/good at anticipating. Back in the day when I had my T-bred training farm and exclusively used the round pen join up method to break babies (two year olds and yearlings) I often had difficult cases. What I found really worked: was to do NOTHING in the round pen with these certain youngsters, IF they had had any sort of bad experience (in or out of the round pen) and as a result became a problem child. I would get them to the round pen, turn them loose, stay in there with them and IGNORE them-- I would clean the round pen, clean a saddle, take my chaps off, put them back on-- walk around-- do all sorts of activities that had noting to do with the horse-- including fiddling with the lunge line. I wouldn't even look at them. I just let them be.
Soon enough they would become so curious-- because the ANTICIPATION of their usual round pen work (sending off etc.) didn't happen. And they began thinking: "Well this is different-- I'm not being asked to do ANYTHING." Once their curiosity got the better of them, they would come over to me to see what I was doing-- again I would ignore them and walk away. Soon enough they were following me around saying in horse language: " Please let me be with you!" At that point the rubs and love would begin-- trust would be built and THEN they were more receptive. In some cases you have to surprise them and get their attention in a different way. Sometimes the very sensitive youngsters who I did this with were very receptive to being started with out being sent away at all in the traditional start to finish 'send away' join up method. But this was rare.
I TOTALLY agree with other posters that going back to the start-- round pen square one-- is the way to go. But until then, perhaps doing NOTHING in the round pen for a few sessions (in the way I described above) might be a help-- especially fiddling with the long lines while you are ignoring her. Just a suggestion. :)) Long post- sorry!
i think this is an excellent point, doing nothing is something humans find VERY difficult to do! And yet the effect can be extraordinary.
I totally agree with all the posts here especially KateLasdan...
Patience, kindness and do nothing for a wee while... and remember now she is going to be SUPER SENSITIVE to the dually if she had that sore nose and bad experience, but horses do relearn quickly. so SUPER soft hands... rewards for the slightest positive response and tiny soft reprimands.
Thanks for everyones advice, it's given me lots to think about. We did leave her loose in the round pen, it's grass so she was quite happy but no matter how long we were in there, we couldn't compete with grass!! An interesting thing, could walk up to her fuss and walk away with nothing in hand but as soon as we walked anywhere near her with the lunge line in hand she took off, so lots of just walking around ignoring her and approach / retreat. We will get there in the end I have no doubt.
Hi Karen
:
Try starting with a very short piece of rope in your hand, make sure it's not swinging, scrunch it up in your hand, stroke her with the back of your hand in the shoulder/withers area, walk away i.e. using the advance and retreat method that you already are using. Then slowly bring the rope out of the hand that you are stroking her with and let her feel that the rope is stroking her and won't harm her. if it takes an inch at at time at first, so be it...the amount will increase as she gets more confident. timing with advance/retreat is crucial. Montys lessons on accepting clippers/plastic bags are a good example of how to do this. Good luck