Hi Newt,

I am since about three months a student of Monty' online university.
I was green three years ago as I got my first horse and he was also green being just three years old. Against all recommandations (green rider should have a trained older horse and viceversa) I decided to buy my horse as green being only three years old. My desire was to go over together with my horse! (I was 55 and he was three so the same life expectation for both of us)You can image what a challange it was! I was afraid and I had fear about everything! But one thing was for me clear! I love horses and especially him. If there was a problem or it went wrong I may not blame my horse but myself! I just wanted to learned together with my horse and nothing else. The horse tell you for sure if are doing something wrong! Just consider your horse as your teacher and don't be worry, you have to try to understand what he is just saying to you! So far no violence, no problem. Try to be focused on his response and not on your frustration being not able to do the things right! Following this rule I achived a level of communication with my horse the other people can not believe it! Smile and use your sense of humor! Nobody is perfect! The breathing exercises could helf really but in my oppinion the most important thing is to have no fear working with your horse and it comes slowly but surely!

And if something is not happend according your expectation so what! Tommorow is another day you can try it.

I learnd to ignore the assistance being and knowing everything anyway better than you! You have to find your own way with your horse. Each horse and owner are different characters so be calm always and try to find your way to speak with your horse. The horse doesn't need you and he can without you but if you want him and something from him you have to work on you! It takes sometimes time but the satisfaction is bigger then you expect!

Looking forward for your feedback!

Milenco

Hi Newt & Milenco.
Kelly Marks advises taking in a big breath & then pushing out as much air from your lungs as possible. The effect on me of this is a definite calmness. It works every time & has worked for the other people I have suggested it to.
Lots of people say they love horses when in fact they really only love the feeling horses give them. The speed, the power, the success. I migrated from ponies to motorbikes as a teenager; more speed, more pain, more danger but no real relationship. Hence why I migrated back. I was taught in the traditional way back in the 60's. In 1981 I got Apollo. He was in a sorry state & we really clicked. We competed locally, I carried a whip but after a few years I took to using it on my boot rather than on him. We had a long & very happy time together. In 2001 I was given a 6 month old filly foal, Bella. By this time Apollo was - 34 years young. He took Bella to his heart. In return she acted as his seeing eye pony as he was blind in one eye and had cataracts in the other. When they were turned out somewhere different she accompanied him on a tour of the venue, every time. She learnt a great deal from Apollo which became apparent when her riding work started. She showed no negativity, ever. She was never difficult to get on, easily dealt with traffic. Never bucked or misbehaved. No way she got like that without a mentor and that was not me. I did get really frustrated with one bit of behaviour. In the first year of riding Bella she would suddenly stop & nothing I did made any difference. I had stopped carrying a whip. I would just sit there for about 15 minutes & then she would move on. There was no obvious reason for her stopping or restarting. Finally I took a show jumpers stick on our ride, waited for her to stop, did all the things that I usually tried in vain & then, with a heavy heart, I sat very tight & walloped her backside with one really hard blow. I knew if I had ever hit Apollo that hard I would have been in the next county before we stopped. NOTHING HAPPENED. She did not bat an eyelash. I was totally stunned! The jumpers stick went in the bin. That was the moment when I truly understood that I loved my horses & wished them no harm. I suggest that if we are civilised then there is no place for violence, especially when it is motivated by our own frustration. Monty says look in the mirror & you will see your horses problem. Bella has given me a great colt in 2013 & a beautiful filly this year. Apollo died at 38 in 2005, peacefully. In total I have a herd of 5, including the now gelded stallion who still takes his fatherly duties very seriously & Max, the incredible bucking pony - well not now! Value the time you share with your horses. It took me many decades to learn the error of my ways & I can testify that without violence is more gratifying. Sorry to go on a bit - but I get passionate about this. Bella & her youngsters are so much more confident than the other two, who came to me aged 2 & 7. Even after 4 years. Violence destroys so much but the worst of it is that it also destroys the violator too. Please, study the Uni, take it to heart & you will be repaid a thousand fold. Cheers. Jo

Wow Milenco, thank you for your response it is very inspirational. I am 50 too. My daughter and I got our first horses in October last year, Like you we got young horses 2 and 3, I felt that it was unfair for us to have only one horse as they are herd animals, so when my daughter decided to get one, I felt that I had to buy it a companion. It was the best thing I've ever done. Learning from Monty Roberts has been the second best thing that I have ever done (although I regret not having done that before I bought the horse, but never mind we're making the best of a bad choice now). My horse has bonded to me very well and she follows me about the farm beautifully. This is great, but I don't want to do things wrong and muck it up.

Mr Roberts says in just about every video that it is important to lower your adrenalin and pulse and stay calm. So far I have not had any problem doing this, because everything has gone well for us and our horses have settled so well, but I don't have an on/off switch, I can't just choose to lower my adrenalin. How do you stay calm under all conditions Milenco? For me it is not so easy...but with the horses so far it has seemed natural...perhaps his methods create a calming environment? Or perhaps we've done well to get two calm animals? Anyway I think this is a great concept, so I want to learn how better not to panic, get scared or worse still get cross. This sounds a bit pathetic really, it sounds Like I have no self control, which is not true at all, but to stand as Mr Roberts does when Fergus suddenly explodes, that is not just self control, that's magic. He say's that he has trained himself to do that. Well it seems to me after a lifetime of working with animals that there is a lesson I would really like to learn!

Thanks Jo, so how have you got Bella to move when she stops now?

I didn't. She just started doing that, for no reason I ever worked out & then one day we went for a ride & she never stopped until we got home. After that she always went without stopping. I think she was just trying to see how far she could push me before I gave into violence. I think the floods of tears I shed into her neck when she proved herself to be more civilised than me convinced her I needed her help. It hurt me so much that she could stand there & take that abuse as though it was part of the deal. NEVER AGAIN. Now she is so generous in giving me access to her youngsters. She never gets protective or worried even when the foal is facing something new & shows fear. It's like she says " come on little one. Jo won't ever hurt you. Pony up ". And they both have. Monty says let the horses tell you. Perhaps that is a bit more literal than many people take it to be. Cheers Jo.

Newt, I find taking a deep breath and letting it out slowly helps, I had to do this with my Old Dragon if we met heavy traffic, we nearly got hit by a lorry so she had good reason for her fear! On my big man if he's playing up I sit fairly loose in the saddle and ignore him, he's a complete nutter going home! Winter my 4 y.o she's pretty good, shoots sideways in the school sometimes rapidly, I bring her back to walk and give her a min or 2 to untwist her knickers and mine,with her it's a baby reaction, big Laurel hedge one side of the school.
We all deal with things differently, I'm lucky I can lower my heart rate enough, but I learnt this on the cross trainer at the gym, keeping my heart rate in a particular range! Takes practice!

Really enjoyed reading all the comments here! A bit like you Jo. I was brought up on a rugged, mountainous, isolated property and my eldest sister by 5 years taught me to ride when I as only 4/5 years old. My sister taught me most by the age of 13 I could muster all our paddocks on the property by myself with Dad's horse and his kelpies - I was doing my schooling by correspondence at the time. When I was 18 I had to leave the property and all the animals who were my special companions and friends behind. Fortunately I was at Uni. the time and on a teacher's scholarship which paid all my expenses. Spent the next 20 years mostly working full time and living in cities. My husband changed cities and jobs every three years for the first 12 years of our marriage. When my youngest daughter was 13 my husband had cancer and as she was very close to him I purchased our first horse for her. We found a beautiful 15 hand, bay QH x standard bred as a share horse. He totally changed my life as because of him we moved out here where we own 5 acres. So I too was older when I came back to horses and since retiring at almost 65 four years ago in order to have time to break in Tricka I have finally found the time to really enjoy them and like Jo have accumulated them over the last 14 years - five of my own including a Shetland for my grand daughter and an additional one I look after for someone else. Sometimes regret leaving it so late in my life but I am maximising my time with them and joy of being around them. None of us can achieve Monty 's level of confidence and relaxation around horses as he is so unique but if we love horses just our presence and time we spend with them will help us to relax. That big breath are breathing certainly helps and when I get a bit nervous with an unknown horse I tend to talk calmly to it which tends to calm me as well as the horse. Good luck Newt and Milenco - it was inspiring to read of your beginnings and of course yours to Jo.

Apologies all for not reading over this before adding it as there are many errors I should have corrected. Wish we had an edit button or do we have one which I haven't found? iPads don't help!

Hi, hey Maggie, relax. We are with you. Horses are us. Let's take control where we can. I am below 60 but not bŷ a lot. I have retired & am devoting whatever I have left to this. I have incredible equines & will share what they give. They are great guys! I put a mare no one would touch (wonky front legs but incredible intelliigence & understanding) with a lovely colt who, in a very cold winter put his bits away. What did I get - perfection, twice to prove it was.not a fluke. No one should despair - there is always hope. My herd are mum, dad, 2013 colt and 2014 filly plus Max, who I love dearly. Realistically, I'm gonna loose Bella which will be a very hard call. She has been lame for 6 years & many people would have put her away then. Had I done that, I would not have had Kirk or this years filly & they are both her & more. I am so lucky but this will be so hard! Bless her, she is so brave. She fractured a knee last Christmas. Vet said too much pain & she'll abort the foal, too much pain relief & she'll abort the foal. Eight months on, foal is here, Bella has had two injections into her knee & is on Dailey pain relief & regular vet checks. She is mechanically lame but is coping really well. The really good bit is Humphrey ( Dad, now gelded ) is still hot on parental duties so all she needs to do is milk bar. I am watching such cooperation. It's so much more than basic. Maybe mine are exceptional, but I tend to think not. Bella has been alpha all her life. Cutting that short is gonna be really hard. I am going to fight for every minute. She will tell me when it's too much.is that too late? I've been lame for 28 years since I broke my thigh & in fixing that they split my hip. I don't want to give up! Why should it be any different for Bella? I want to do the right thing but I'm worried by my need to fight - could that be wrong for such a brave mare? Thoughts invited! Cheers, Jo

Thank you all, I've enjoyed reading your stories very much! We were bringing our ponies in along the lane this morning (it is very quiet usually, but with almost no traffic at 6:00am) anyway a car came screaming towards us and my daughter handled her horse Opal beautifully, Misty (mine) was a little startled and danced about a little but because none of us reacted suddenly, she calmed down very quickly. We passed calmly and although their ears were pricked up, neither horse seemed too scared.

Perhaps we tend to only remember the really bad things, when things go well, we just get on with life don't we?

Thanks for all the advice, I shall practice these breathing techniques as much as I can. Is breathing in a controlled way like this all there is to it, or do you all use other techniques too?

Jo, I have had many animals put down over the years for one reason or another and it is never easy. Never. We breed and work our own sheep dogs and I had to take Meg to the vets last year. She was almost 19. She had been with me for years and she was quite a character but I knew her time had come when she stopped eating and was whimpering from time to time (she had advanced cancer). The vets were great and I can't fault them at all, they made it clear that I didn't have to be there, but I wanted to stay with Meg and I could not help crying like a baby as she fell asleep. The vet wrote me a lovely letter afterwards, telling me that I had done the right thing and what a wonderful Life she must have had to reach that age. I knew all this and I don't feel guilty because I know that I did the right thing, but it still hurts when you have spent everyday of your life for almost 19 years working with an animal (or should I say friend?) like that. But it is absolutely our duty not to let the ones we love suffer too much and if all we can do is ease their passing then we owe it to them to do that. Should I have taken her sooner? Perhaps. But while I knew that she had slowed down and was suffering some pain, she was coping. It was only when I knew that she couldn't cope that I made the hard choice. Only the caring owner can decide when that time has come, no one else can.
Take care, Newt

Thanks Newt. That's a real supportive help. Me too, lots of 'friends' gone in similar circumstances. It does not get easier! Horses synchronise so get the breathing right & you will be calm & so will they be. My Max came from out in the sticks & was not used to traffic. We were riding on a narrow country road & when a car came along I really focused on being calm, staying relaxed & not gripping onto him. He was good, if a bit nervous. I rubbed his shoulder vigorously to reward him. A few minutes later a big jeep with an empty, two tier metal sheep trailer in tow came hurtling towards us. My instinct was this would be too much for him to cope with & we were in danger of spinning around & racing the jeep up the road. I focused on being calm. I felt him tense underneath me so I rubbed his neck. What he did next amazed me. He stepped onto the grass verge, turned his head towards the hedge and shut his eyes! It was like he was saying ' if I can't see it it's not there. You cope with it '. That is some reaction from a flight animal.
Humphrey, my now gelded stallion, walked with me along a really busy road leading to the Forth Road Bridge as a youngster, paying no attention to any of the traffic - on the dually. No response to big trucks, flapping tarps, you name it. But there were cows in a field on the opposite side & he stopped, fascinated by the cows. I stood & let him watch the cows. Then I gently moved him on. No problem. I find not having a fixed idea of what needs to be achieved often leads to a greater achievement. He has always been a very gentle character. Cheers, Jo

Hi Newt,

it is beautiful to see how big our family is and how many people react if one of us needs help! Each of us has problems and really doesn't know exactly how to manage it!
For me it took about two years to reach the level and to stay calm when my Chattoo getting nervous!

Here are some rules I followed:

1. Be always in the safety zone from your horse. If he is getting scared or spooky you don't need to be affraid, because you are in the safety zone. Calm down him and next time his reaction will be less violent!
2. I have somedays also bad days in the job being not in the best mude. I have the choice to stay at home and not transfering my bad mude on my horse or to think positive and being happy to meet him and spending some hours together with him. In the last case I forgot after these hours with him all troubles in the office. The horse can also have bad days, they have soul and their mude. In this case I stay with him in the box and just speaking with him very calm and low or I take him out for grazing. That makes him very happy and gradefully.
3. Try to built up a reflex and to say him be calm or easy boy ( Mr. Monty says it also) if he shows first signs of fear. Acting on this way you will be first automatically calm.
4. Last year walking on the fields he began at once to stop by himself and just looking around or trying to graze. I tried to make him move forward but he ignored me. Andyou can image I was really angry! Today I did not let him graze taking the reins short and just waiting for his own choice or decision without any force. After one minute he started to move forward again. Each time he did it I just said OK my friend lets take a brake and look around but nothing else. After 5 or 6 times he never did it anymore!

so much for today and we keep in contact. I really want to help you because I know exactly what you are feeling having back this experience myself!

Wow Jo! He shut his eyes? Aren't horses amazing? Just when you think you know what they'll do next, they surprise you!
When Misty and Opal first saw our cows I don't know who was more afraid, them or the cows! Now the horses get upset if we take the cows away without them! And they want to round them up all the time! They love running with the calves, but I'm not sure the cows like that. The bull isn't in the least interested in them though, he has better things to do.

Milenco, thanks this is all very helpful. Have you ever tried Mr Robert's giddy up rope to move your horse on when he stands like that? If so, how did you get on with that?

Our ponies seem very laid back and sometimes they won't move forward in the round pen. I think I am going to try a stick with bags on it and waving it above them as Mr Roberts does, have you tried that?

Jo feeling for you re Belated. Tricka's Mum Pie had a bad knee for 20 years of her life - she was a little like you Bella - so brutalised as a young horse but she learnt to trust me. My vet suggested it was time to say goodbye a couple of years ago when she was 23 years old so I agreed. Still regret that decision and still miss her as she was still doing OK. Actually less lame than she had been during her younger life as her knee had calcified around the injury and she could canter up for her feed again. It was probably the right time for Pie as she would have deteriorated over the last couple of years and I was having trouble finding the time to care for her. So hard to know when and I am feeling for you.

Thanks Maggie. At the moment Bella is coping & as the weather is good I am hopeful. The filly needs her Mum for at least 4 months. We will be at 12 weeks next Monday. Bella is happy for Humphrey (Dad) now gelded to take more than his fair share of parenting. Thankfully, this wonderfully gentle cob is a diligent Dad, best mates with last years colt, Kirk & happy to look after the filly too. I keep hay in a trailer in the field. Big brother & Dad have taught the filly to load on the trailer. The summer field has a proper Scottish stone wall along one side, next to my driveway - so very convenient. We had a repair on this wall done today. The ponies gathered around watching the process happening & investigating these two men in their field. At one point it looked like the two youngsters we trying to learn how to repair a wall, sifting through the tools & paying such close attention. Let's just keep everything crossed that Bella doesn't develope a problem with any of her other legs & we can continue as we are for as long as possible. My vet is Edinburgh University & they have been very supportive. I just feel the more time Bella has the better for the filly foal. Kirk was 10 months old when she weaned him. She is firework proof & has taught this to everyone else. I would love her to teach her daughter this too. Bella is brave, intelligent, loving & wonderful. She deserves 100% from me & the vets. She will get that. She is an inspiration, but then she has always been a complete one off. When she was 5 I tried to ride her away from her friend & she objected. I started to work to block her attempts to turn round. Thankfully, we were in a field of long grass. She let me block her several times & then said, ok, what will you do in response to this & laid down! I rolled off mindful that her knees & hocks could be damaged. Immediately, she got up, turned around & nuzzled me, waiting for me to get up & back on her. She was perfectly happy to ride up & down next to her friend, totally co operative but not to leave her friend, Hudson. After that, if I wanted to go for a hack we arranged for Hudson to come too. If he couldn't come we went with Jaybo. Interestingly, both these geldings were much older than Bella yet she was the calm one. They relied on her for support. Your understanding is greatly supportive. Thank you so much. Cheers, Jo.

Hi all,
After reading through this thread, I would like to add a technique that works at all levels in life. I learned it from a small book called "Zen and the art of archery" written by Eugen Herrigel. He describes how we can learn to let things happen, without getting adrenalin up, by breathing and being in the moment. Letting "it" happen, without "making" it happen.... isn't that exactly what we should do with horses!?
The book has been translated in many languages, there are quite some imitations on other subjects like "motorcyclemaintainence" etc, but this is the original from I think the sixties. Some things are universal for all times and all cultures!
Miriam

Hi Newt,

to your questions:

1. I don't have a giddy up rope. But I tried with the reins. It works wonderfull. My impresion is that we work to less with our horses and they have to less adrenaline or they are half slept when we ride them! At least my horse has so much trust in me that I could play the clown or to be in my movements as agressive as I can be but he is not anymore afraid of me. he knows that nothing wrong or bad can happend comming from me. In the moment I used the reins as giddy up rope I see him like awaking from the deepest sleep and for some minutes he was very active and moving perfectly. After 10 minutes it seems to go sleeping again! Due to the fact that I was "green" and afraid of any quick or unespected reaction from my horse I tried to be calm and still so much as possible. Now I think I have to increase a liitle bit the tempo. I got the feeling the same is valid for your ponies. The have more fun to round up the cows that in our ridding. So somebody said that a horse needs only good feeding and a wed saddle pad. Let's try it.

2. Related to "no intention to move forward in the round pen" , you can try with the plastic bag, maybe it helps. Depending on how much sensible your horses are. My horse is not very impressed of plastic bags or similar. I worked with him and disensibilsed him and now it can happen everything so far I am standing by him. It is enough to say him " ruhig" ( something similar to easy boy) and he calms down.

Hi Milenco. Giddy up rope is much softer than reins. Watch videos of " Walter won't go forward " & I think you will see all that you need to know. They are not expensive & I think the fact that they are white is important, although Walter can't see it due to pacifier & tape. If it hangs from your saddle or your wrist it naturally flops against the horse, very gently & that is a reminder to the horse, although oh so subtle. Cheers, Jo

Yes I agree with you Jo, but I'm sure Milenco was gentle with the reins or the horse would lose trust.

You're quite right though Milenco, my ponies are so laid back and trusting that it is hard to motivate them sometimes. I don't want to spoil that. We had a great walk in the woods this morning with them, but we didn't have time for much work. I think I will get a giddy up rope, I think they provide more of a visual pressure than a physical one. Must go, take care all, Newt

Hi Jo and Newt

it is not a matter of money especially if. inneed something for my horse but I didn't find a giddy up rope of cotton in Germany. What I found is of nylon and I can imagine it is not so soft as cotton. In september I will visit The Flag is up Ranch and maybe Mr. Roberts offers a original giddy up rope in his shop.

And don't think I was beating the horse with the reins! I beat with the reins against my legs! It was the noise making him to move forward. I would never do it (to beat my horse)

Jo, I watched the lesson with Walter and after it I used the reins as giddy up rope because I had not a giddy up rope. But soon I will have one :=))

Take care and keep in contact