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Horse Behavior and Training

staying in the field

Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed

hi again! without meaning to hog the forum I need advice on another issue that has just cropped up. I have just been told that for the past two night my darling boy has pushed past the groom bringing in and tried and succeeded in taking himself to bed!
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As I have said in my previous post, he is so much more settled and happy in the new yard. He goes out with four other geldings, one of which is his bestest (we think maybe they knew each other when they were younger) the other three, which he likes but Lloyd is top dog and woods is wary of him. otherwise seems happy with each other and no bust ups we know about. He also HATES the wet. He wants to live out in summer but really wants to come in in winter. This we know.
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But Sunday night, Bev who owns the yard and is the groom, went to get Llyod and his best bud in first(they go everywhere together) as they were at the gate. Woods wouldn't go past them so was going to come back for him. As she got them out and round, woods pushed past them through a gap. Bev is very gentle and although I expect a reprimand, I know she wouldn't have shouted or done anything to scare him.
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Monday night, she thought she was quick enough and had hooked the electric back but as she turned to go, woods pushed through the electric and went to bed! Apparently it wasn't panicked but he knew what he wanted.He has always been respectful of it before. I will say both times the other two were still out as Bev wont leave him on his own to panic.
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Also this morning, I turned him out on his own as the others were following in a few mins, he has 8 other horses around him, next to him and he called and called and wanted to come back through. Felt like a right cow but I had to go to work.
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Any ideas how to lessen this stress of being without his herd (when we work he's fine on his own) and have more patience to wait. He has never been a bad mannered horse and I don't want him to become one now! Also I work late so they have to get him in for me and I don't want him acting up for them.
Cheers!

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Hi - you are not 'hogging the forum' - I love the questions, it challenges me to work my brain and think it through :-)
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ok..."when we work, he's fine on his own" ...but he's not own his own is he? He is with you, that is a small herd! :-) And it is a credit to you that he is not calling out when with you so he is clearly trusting you and happy to be with you.
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This is an extension of your other post and Bud made a great observation that would seem to fit i.e. check all his other moments where he decides to make the decision himself (he seems to have a few bless him!)and look for incidences of separation anxiety (which he is showing!). It is important to teach him to separate from his "best bud" as being over dependent on one horse is not ideal for him so try to avoid always going in and out with his "best bud".
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Can you and Bev find some time to work together through this and you can teach Bev how to use the Dually, how to behave as you do etc. so that there is consistency for him in understanding what he can/cannot do. Also, as I said before, 'mix it up'. Further, if he pushes past and takes himself to bed I would take him out again! Put him back out, turn him round bring him back, the INSTANT he appears to be 'taking off', turn him round, take him back a few steps, try again. He will soon get the idea that the only way he is going forward to bed is if he takes it steadily. Bev will need your help though as it is not up to her to train him :-)
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Re: electric, this is tricky; if he is willing to walk through the electric fence you have a problem - I need to think about this and am looking forward to hearing what others think.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Working along with what Vicci said, but a bit more before he's even escaped. woods doesn't see Bev as a hierarchy person hence quite happy to push past her. Using the send away process of join up and keeping the horse away from the gate area would be of value for her to learn, not only for Woods, but also for any other horse that she might have to deal with in a larger herd.
A lead rope is all that is needed and the open hand, to show her to send away and far enough away from the gate that he's not allowed near without her permission. Each time he comes near, send away again until you see the signs of join up, the head dropping will come a lot quicker as you already work with him, only once she's achieved the head dropping will he respect her space and not barge past to take himself to bed.
It is human placidity that causes this as they get accustomed to just thinking the horse will do as it's told, but being a horse if it sees the human as a lower hierarchy then it has no need to listen to the human.
Some of the fields I harrow have a small 5 herd in them, in using this principle I can leave the gate wide open and drive my car in or out and the horses know that this is my space and they are not allowed near it whilst I'm there. Once the gate is closed and I've finished, only then do they come to the gate for a fuss after. Actually I use the same principle with my car as they like to eat it as I found out the first time I took my car in lol. They now know they're not allowed near my car.
Does this make sense and do you think you can show Bev this?
Mel
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Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Remember eyes on eyes too! x

JoHewittVINTA
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Hi. I agree with Vicci. However, there's another thought. Was the weather cold/windy/wet? Lots of horses get upset in windy weather & they can get so desperate they forget their manners, albeit temporarily. If he's barging through a spring gate ( Spring gates are a pet hate of mine - tails swishing & getting tangled up ending in frightend herd bolt off chased by a 'snake' - useless! Paddock with no gate ) I suggest replacing it with just the handle & 6mm electric rope sized exactly to the gap. Then the gate mirrors the fence & is much less likely to cause problems. Perhaps adding a fleece under his rug will keep him cozier seeing how he hates the wet - just like my Apollo. Hope some of these suggestions are helpful. Cheers, Jo.

Widgymaphlip
Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed

Fab thanks guys!! I will ask Bev if we can work together with this. I know she is under a lot of pressure atm running a big yard and our groom just left! but I hope she sees this will make her life easier. I have most of next week off so will try and get him in each day and see what he does and use the advice you have given me.
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He has always been cheeky and will test the water, yet never bad manners as I had him when my M.E started so I couldn't afford any pushing and he was great.
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He is a massive girl and if I could he'd want me to carry him over mud, puddles ect so the weather doesn't even have to be that drastic for him to be a wuss, but Jo I know he can 'loose it' as they can do when the weather is really bad!
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The only thing I will say which may pose a problem with sending him away is that he will stand behind two big horses as when Bev goes to get them (otherwise she would get him in first) then as she has them and gets them through the gate, that was when he tried it, or waited until she had both and had shut the gate to go through. So sending him away might be difficult with two horses in tow (I know you will say she should get one in at a time to help but ill see what she says!) and also at this point the dually isn't on him. She has though used it on a horse of hers before so leading him I think she is fine.
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But I will try myself and do this and get Bev to too and let you know! Love the forum and love you guys! Thanks!

Widgymaphlip
Please upload your photo 100 lessons completed

oh and i know we are a little herd :) i should have said not with other horses :)
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and yes he does make decisions for himself!! and will just 'do it'. great sometimes but a pain in the butt otherwise! it's strange how he can be confident in himself at times and others just does not know what to do with himself. will try and think of times when he has done this and the situation around it....hmmm....

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Hi, can you elaborate a bit more on the bit you said ... "he will stand behind two big horses as when Bev goes to get them" is he standing in a hierarchy order, is his head close to the other horses rear ends, does he block his view of Bev? Does he do this with you?
Mel
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