Hi Deborah,

It is a very good topic, and I'm sure there will be lots of comments with differing views. I've had both barefoot and shod horses.

Firstly, your friends who can't ride their horses for a few days after being shod need to get themselves a new farrier! A good farrier won't make your horse sore after shoeing. This has been told to me by a couple of different GOOD farriers that have never made my horses sore.

Secondly, I think a lot of the time it depends on the type of horse and what they are being used for. Because we are placing different demands on them can mean that certain horses require shoeing. I currently have a thoroughbred ex racehorse, and he is in quite heavy work, and so he needs shoes. A lot of ex-racehorses (my past and present included) have issues with their hooves because they have been messed around with by humans early on, started racing too early and good feet are not considered when breeding them so thin soles etc seem to being bred into them. At the same time, because my T'bred is currently getting a lot of work, more than that of a wild horse or a horse that is spelling in a paddock, the shoes offer support and protection from wearing down too quickly.

In terms of barefoot horses I've had, these were Australian Stockhorse crosses, and tough pony crosses. They had good, strong hooves and for the light to medium work they were getting they never required shoes and were never lame.

So my conclusion is that if your horse has good feet to start with, and they are not in heavy work, I would recommend the barefoot option.

Ruth

Mainly posting to agree with ruthy! Well written post! Esp. about how a horse shouldn't have to be rested after a normal visit from the farrier.
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There are a couple of opposing "parties" in the question, all with very adamant views about what is right.
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In my humble opinion, what is right for *one* particular horse, is right for *that particular horse*, but not necessarily for every other horse as well.
And it is up to us to be flexible enough to find out what "right" is for every single horse we are responsible for.

For my little horse, with her tiny feet her farrier says to never have her shod. He says it would ruin her feet.
He says the walls are strong and solid.
She is not shown or used for any sports right now and I will follow whatever her farrier suggests in the future.
I have her feet done every six weeks.
It took me a while to find someone as good as Danny Thompson but now that I have found him it's great.
He also appreciates that I prepare her well before he comes and that I have trained her to lift her feet and keep them there for her cleaning and clipping and polishing.
I agree with you all, it depends on the horse and their activities or requirements of the eventing.
My nephew is a farrier but lives too far away from me or I would use him, he's really good and measurses everything, it takes a little longer but he has a great reputation.
He likes to see the horse walk on flat ground to see how they wear their feet and goes from there, that's my Ricky.

Ruthy
Very good posting. One size does not fit all. My horse is always barefoot. I can not shoe him and show him in a rated show. All Peruvian Paso horses are unshod in Peru and very few are shod in the USA. Having a lot of Spanish breeds in their makeup has given them very strong feet. Also if your horse is having problems with their feet like a contracted heel or is stumbling a lot going barefoot can be very beneficial. If you ride your horse lightly, that is not taking them over rough terrain you might want to save yourself some money and your horse the discomfort of standing to get their shoes put on. Ruthy is right that if the farrier is doing a good job the horse should not have sore feet. When we trip our horses hooves their feet are tender but not sore. So for the first two or three days after a trimming we walk or go at slower than usual gait. My horse has never come up lame or could not work.

Cheers

Hi all
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I too agree with Ruth. We have a Quarter Horse gelding who is 18 years old and he quite simply cannot go without shoes. His feet are so tender when he is barefoot, he just can't be ridden and he limps around the paddock too. Where as our Rescue horse that we think is an Australian Stock Horse cross (can't really be sure of his breeding), has the hardest feet I have ever seen! Therefore we don't intend on shoeing him any time soon.
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We are currently feeding Ranger Biotin suppliments to try to improve the condition of his feet. Will see how we go.
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Excellent post Ruth - its so true that what's good for one is not always good for all.
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi!

I also agree with ruthy. You do have to look at each horse individually and find yourself a good farrier! There is so much debate about weather to go with shoes or barefoot. In my opinion if you can go barefoot...do! There is no doubt that shoes do affect the natural function of the hoof, as a barefoot hoof expands and contracts on touching and leaving the ground. shoes take away this function. Having said that, my last horse was an off the track thouroughbred who had terribly thin soles and weak shelly walls. I did take his shoes off and trim him barefoot, and gave him seaweed meal as a natural source of biotin. He was fine on grass and on tarmac but i could never ride on any rough tracks. I put it down to the fact that he was shod from such an early age, so his feet never toughened up. One of the reasons for choosing a Brumby as my next horse was that they have really tough feet bred from lots of running in mountain country! No shoes needed there!

Gen have ever tried seaweed meal for your horses feet? Did wonders for my thouroughbred. Apparently it is one of the best sources of natural biotin. Just thought i'd mention it :-)

Great subject by the way!

Cheers!

Hi Nelliebell
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Yes, I feed all my horses one table spoon of seaweed meal every day :-) Thanks for mentioning it.
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Ranger has been having the seaweed meal and the biotin for about 6 months now, because we weren't seeing any obvious improvement with just the seaweed meal alone. The last time the Farrier came in early September, he said that he was beginning to see some improvement in the strength of his feet. I could see too that he was having to use more force on the rasp to file the feet into shape. Before the rasp litterally melted through his feet like a hot knife cutting butter.
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So hopefully we are on the right track :-) Seaweed meal is a great suppliment that is rich in so many minerals.
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You definately can't go wrong with your new brumby as far as feet are concerned ;-) You will have to give us all updates on your progress with him or her.
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi Gen

I wish i had thought to put pure biotin with seaweed for my TB! unfortunately he died a few months ago so will never know if it might have made a difference :-(

I will def post updates on my Brumby progress!

Janelle

Good post Deborah and good response Ruthy plus everyone else. Horses hooves like all their other features differ so much between breeds and within breeds so there can be no definitive right or wrong answer here. I have one of my horses shod as her hooves are not good and I ride her on rough gravel, stony roads. Naturally I try to keep her off the roads wherever possible and when cantering. The others I leave unshod and trim them myself and then have my excellent farrier trim them every 3rd time. Certainly you should be able to ride a shod horse immediately after shoeing if you have a good farrier so that should not be an issue. My young mare, Tricka, has been unshod so far but I am contemplating shoeing her. Her hooves are good but the menage at our club is course sand with many small pebbles which she finds hard on her unshod hooves particularly when cantering. I did hope to simply buy good slip on rubber boots as Deborah suggests above but I don't believe this is much of a solution. Initially I bought the trial riding boots but they were really clunky on Tricka's hooves. She has fairly large front hooves but very narrow fetlocks so I couldn't adjust the velcrose to fit her snuggly enough. I then purchased another "Easy Boot" with velcrose adjustment around the fetlock. They fit better than the Trial Riding boots and are meant to be the best on the market for endurance work but I am not happy with them either and certainly would not wish to do much cantering or jumping with them on. I would be interested to know how others find the rubber boot alternative and if you have any recommendations for a paritcular boot. The catalogue I checked out had a number of different ones but the second ones I purchased were recommended as the best on the market. These boots seem so unnatural on the hooves that shoeing seems the is the best option if a horses hooves are tender/young and/or you wish to ride on rougher surfaces.

Thank you every one for your thoughts. You have pretty much reflected my views. As for sore feet after being shod. Would seem like common sense to me that she should look elsewhere for a farrier. But she doesn't think so sense it has only happened twice in 5 years.
Maggie have you tried either of the Cavallo boots? They can be fitted to the horses foot and a lot of the ACTHA riders use them. They are very versatile from what I am told. I don't have any experience with them yet.
Thanks again every one.

Thanks for this advise, Deborah. I will do a google search and check these out.

Hi all - found out this morning why it is important to rest some horses after a farrier's visit while others can be ridden straight away. As we surmised it depends on the farrier! A good farrier hollows out the inside of the front of the shoe so that the shoe doesn't touch the sole of the hoof but just touches the rim. If this is done the horse can be ridden immediately after shoeing. If this is not done and the shoe is put on flat then the horse will be sore for a couple of days and shouldn't be ridden during that period. This was new to me so I thought maybe it would be new to others too. Plus horses with shoes on will not slip as much on wet ground as the shoes provide better traction than barefoot. Tricka shied recently and slipped badly on the wet grass ending up on her back on top of the saddle with her legs in the air. Luckily I fell off first but I was so worried about her - this may not have happened if she had shoes on. Next week she will get shoes on her front hooves - I don't think she is quite ready for the back ones to be done yet.

Maggie
FYI when you trim a barefoot horse you should just walk them for a couple of days. It is not that they are sore, but the sole of their hoof is a little tender. I don't know about barefoot horses slipping on grass any more than one that is shod. I know my boy is very careful when he is walking on wet concrete or blacktop and is not too sure of his footing.

Cheers

Thanks Dennis, just got this info from my farrier this morning so thought I would pass it on. Previously I had thought that shoes slipped more than barefoot and I still think they would on smooth hard surfaces like concrete. I guess if the surface is really slippery and they are not careful like your boy then they will go over anyway.

MaggieF,
Are you OK? Did you hurt yourself at all?
That must have been scary, for you and the horse.
Star has never slipped on wet grass and I have never put shoes on her.
In the morning and at night when I clean her hoofs, I make sure everywhere is really clean.
I use my pick to clean around the frog and then around the inside of the rim of her wall, there is a small protuding rim there.
Her ferrier is great and does not overtrim, she has her feet done every six weeks.
I'm not sure if this makes a difference or not.
Hope you are OK,
Ronda

Thanks so much Ronda for your kind thoughts. After this fall I was fine as she actually fixed me!! Five weeks previously I had a far worse buster landing on my back heavily. I was winded and had a bit of trouble getting up but managed to get back on again. Next day I could hardly move as I had pinched my sciatic nerve - it was very painful and restricting. I was in heaps of pain for the five weeks with pain killers everyday to keep me going and saw a chiro, oesteopath and physio with little improvement. That's when I discovered Forum as I was somewhat out of action with time on my hands. When Tricka shyed it was the first time I had been on her since the previous fall. Again I landed on my back but I wasn't winded or hurt and miraculously as I jumped up I was fine. Perhaps I was just too stressed over Tricka to think of myself as she was still lying on her back with her legs in the air after I got up!! I thought I had broken her back! Anyway ever since that second fall I have been fine and it is great to be off the pain killers and be able to lead my normal pretty physical life again. It was a pretty scary time for those five weeks as I was worried that I wouldn't get better so I have been very lucky!!! Tricka was lucky too as she only suffered some pretty bad bruising from the saddle. She is pretty nervous of wet grass now!. She is getting checked out again this Friday by the horse physio but she has been really good lately and much better since the dentist's visit. Her teeth may have been the reason why she tossed me off the first time - took off and pigrooted while we were cantering in a circle - she had not done anything naughty at all previously. It is now two years since I started breaking her. Yes I think it is important to pick out their hooves at least daily and before and after riding. I trim hers myself but get my farrier to check them and correct any problems every so often. Like you I have an excellent farrier and that helps so much. Thanks heaps!!

Hi Maggief,

There are a couple of really grest websites about barefoot hooves :-) first is 'wildabouthooves.com.au' and second is 'barefootforsoundness.com' both these websites give really good information about the function of the natural hoof. Also another thing to remember is that traditional farriers 'pasture trim' is very different to a propper barefoot trim. If you are debating whether to shoe or not i highly recomend having a look at these websites and maybe try to find a barefoot trimmer in your area for some advice. Not to say that your farrier doesn't know what he is talking about..not saying that at all!
Good luck with it all :-)
Janelle

thanks Nelliebell - I will check out the websites.

I must say I am much more one side than the other though I do agree it depends on the horse i am all for bare foot horses. One of my thoroughbreds came with shoes on her feet when i bought her and she slipped on grass just as Maggie experienced with her un shod horse so im a little bit skeptical about the shoes giving more traction and i think a farrier saying that could (though no necessarily!) be biased. I believe that like any physical work feet need to be built up you cant get a horse from grassy paddock and expect their feet to be ok on a gravel road they are going to find it sore however, I do agree in shoeing for remedial and correctional reasons. However this is a topic that is so individual as well. Great hearing all the other opinions!
Hannah

Hey all, I am a hunter jumper, and I have taken my horse to a few shows here last summer. All the people I ride with have their horses shod. These people have show jumper horses, and here in Canada, the footing is grass. So, they shoe their horses and cork them so they do not slip on grass. Well, last August, I took my horse to a show - jumping 3 foot fences on grass (normal footing here for a hunter horse is sand/dirt) and I have to say, I prefered the grass footing to the sand footing. My horse has never been shod. He was very sure footed on grass. I hack him everywhere too - no problemo. So, sliping is not a concern of mine at all - as long as you are a balanced rider and trust your horse. I have been told that sand wears down hooves really quickly - not a problem for my horse in the last 4 years - so either I am really lucky with my horse's feet - or hooves really do know how to grow to compensate for their wearing. We had a very dry summer up here in the praries of Canada - no problem with cracked soles or hooves. I am a follower of Pete Ramey and my trimmer subscribes to his methods. So, that is how I am lucky - I have a trimmer who knows foot mechanics and pathology. I did have a bit of a thrush problem, but the no thrush powder worked like a dream. Do not count out the fact that heel pain may be due to a deep frog sulcus infection. Thrush is not cosmetic - and it should be treated before it oozes black goo. While barefootedness works for me and my horse - I am not against people who shoe their horses - as long as they are OK with me not shoeing my horse:)

Hi everyone, just wanted to recommend a very good site for a good understanding of hoofcare and trimming:
horsefarrier.com.au
this guy is absolutely brilliant and his website is a wealth of info. No horse should ever be lame after having their feet done, the new wave of 'barefoot trimming' requires that the horse endure a period of lameness before their feet adjust to having shoes off. This should not be the case and is, in my opinion cruel. A correctly trimmed hoof should be sound with shoes on or without ( the only difference being that the hoof wall should be longer if the horse is going without shoes so that he has something to walk on, he should not be walking on the sole).
My horses are all barefoot in the paddock and are only shod when they go to the racetrack.
But for anyone interested in good hoofcare I highly, highly recommend looking at the above website. I'll be interested to check out Pete Ramey that you mention though too, EvyG.

Trouble with the modern shoe (1800's) is that it loads the outer hoof wall which is not meant to be weight bearing."No feet, no horse" we have all heard the adage,but few regard the feet as the most important part of their horse.I feel that if horse owners truely understood the complex engineering and machanics of the equine foot in action,they would prefer rubber boots.I have been trimming my own horses for two years now and have learned about common problems such as high heels,coronary jamming,overlaid bars and compacted sole.A shod horse falls through the shoes,how can he not, if the outer rim is all that his weight is on? Why do shod horses land toe first and the barefoot or booted land heel first?Landing toe first means the joints are out of alignment for which the horse will pay a price,heel first,and all the bones and ligaments and tendons are as nature intended in healthy equine locomotion.It takes dedication to transition your horse to going unshod,but in my opinion there's little choice once you have informed yourself of shoeing and the inevitable consequences.
Native Americans said;The horse has five hearts,one in his chest ,and one in each foot.To what do you think they were referring? And do your frogs contact the ground? Horse anatomy:the heart has to pump hard to send blood and oxygen to the far extremities of the feet and back again,not only do shoes take away four hearts by rendering the frogs inert,they also reduce blood supply by forcing the sharp top of the hoof capsule up into the coronary band which is a network of blood vessels that change caliber as the horse works.Traditional techniques of horse breaking recently deemed cruel after centuries of people largely accepting that it was "just how it was done.." I think we need to WAKE UP where iron shoeing is concerned too.Suggested reading, George Fleming, 1869 highly documented treatise on horses and shoeing from Xenophon onwards.Shoeing became necessary having taken horse's motion away and standing him on soft bedding and manure in a box stall.Servitude to mankind has done such harm to the noble horse,the rings of his slavery should be,by now,a thing of the past.You tube; click on thehappyhoof and you will never look back.Saludos!

Dear all
I found beautiful videos on Youtube to the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayEJacuoJ7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL_45ml-TlI
Rudi

All of what has been said makes sense when u are talking of the rim shod horses - going natural is fine if u are able to trim your own and do it on a regular basses as wild horses do by travelling 25 - 30 km a day - but when we as humans mess with them keeping them in small yards where they are unable to wear their feet down - if u use a sole shoe such as cytek - they they give them full support - frog and sole pressure and a constant break over at the point of the pedal bone. best of both worlds.

Hi everyone
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On seeing this thread pop up again, I thought I would give you an update on Ranger's feet after 18 months on Biotin suppliments. It's taken a while, but he is barefoot now with no pain. My husband also made him some kick rings like in Monty's book "From My Hands To Yours" that he has been wearing on and off over the last 6 months or so. His feet are steadily getting better and stronger.
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For those who don't have Monty's book, the kick rings massage the coronet band and improve hoof condition. They also stop horses from kicking if you have that problem.
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When we go on long rides on roads, Ranger wears boots on his front feet. They are like sports shoes for horses and they work really well to protect his feet from stones etc.
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We never thought it would be possible for Ranger to go without shoes. Amazing what time and perseverance can achieve.
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Thanks for the links Rudi :-)
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See you later,
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Gen

Ouyen and Nicky both have very poor hooves with thin walls so I find shoeing is necessary for them so it depends on your horse whether they are better barefoot or shot. Nicky has been on Biotin so hopefully I will get results similar to yours Gen. Ken thanks again for you input re cytek shoes. I am looking into them for Ouyen and have checked out John Briggs - cytek farrier facebook site. I find many of the comments on this site disappointing and the fact that only 27 our of 79 comments like these shoes is a worry. Have you any explanation for this result?

Hi Maggie
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Good luck with your horses. It will take time :-) but its worth having a go.
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I haven't been able to access the links on my iPhone. Really interested to have a look.
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See you later,
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Gen

Here is my little insight on this subject.

Personally I would prefer not to shoe my horse. For me it will always be barefoot and if needed boots. The boots nowadays are getting better and better. I prefer the easy boot brandname. Easy to put on and take of again.

Horses with shoes on have cold legs and horses without shoes have warm legs! Believe me it is true. Horses without shoes have way better blood circulation in their legs than horses with shoes. With metal shoes nailed in the hoof the hoof cannot expand and contract like they are suppose to do. Each hoof is a little mecanical pump to help with the blood circulation. The moment you put a metal shoe on the hoof you effectivly switched the pump of. Hence less blood circulattion and the "cold legs" are just a sympton but the real effects is much worse. Horses are not born with thin or thick soles. Also thick or thin soles are not inherited. You can not say that because I do hard farm work and my hands are calloused and hard that I inherited it from my mom and dad! I earned it with hard work. Same goes for horses the more the soles are exposed to hard terrain the thicker and harder the soles and frog will become. One solution to thin soles could be to put pea size gravel on all the favourite places your horse would like to stand. This way he/she will get a constant sole and frog massage and they WILL thicken up! Finally it is proofen that horses without shoes can be ridden untill their late thirties. Horses who shoes on all their life on average have to retire by the age of 20. Finally unstabled horses without shoes do not get navicular disease it is a disease brought on by the practice of shoeing and the earlier a horse gets shoes on the bigger candidates they are for navicular disease.

Here I have said it so shoot my now :)

Im sticking with mother nature on this one! I have had both shod and unshod horses, before I knew about the whole "barefoot" thing. I really believe in leaving things as natural as possible:-)
Just out of interest Icame across this website with a list of some of the barefoot trimmers in Australia......http://www.aebm.org.au/trimmers_list.htm
I'm sure someone made a recommendation in another thread, but I can't find it.