I have always gotten into debates about the use of violence against horses. I feel as though one should never have to use violence. But someone brought up a good question and asked me about the violence out in the pasture and horse herds. Horses kick and bite eachother when interescting. How is this different than the ways we establish repect? I still dont want to ever resolve to violence but what about the way herds interact? Any thoughts???
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The most important question is are we having violence the human way or the horse way ? That is the key! I think many times we expect the horse to act like a human and then we treat the horse for being a horse and punish him as if it is a human. Yes, it is confusing just reading about it- imagine what the poor horse must feel!!
I have the same idea. I would not like to be treated like a horse by horses. The relationship between humans and horses is interspecific (between different species) and must have other rules. Violence will characterize us as predators and will disturb our partnership.
Is their any good reading material or examples anyone has about human vilence and horse violence? (besides the obvious). And I totally understand "Violence will characterize us as predators and will disturb our partnership." But it is still very grey for my in between herds... I just wish i had a way of giving examples and explaing to people that bring this up. And i know i would like to be able to have better clarification.
I am just reading a book about clicker training for horses by Alexandra Kurland. She is writing: "Of all the ways to control behaviour, punishment is perhaps the easiest to use, the most addictive, and the least effective."
I have often heard the same argument. What I say is that there is a difference between discipline and violence. Discipline is essential when training, but even more so is reward. Will horses bite and kick eachother to discipline, yes, but as the more intelligent species we need to understand that we will NEVER win a physical fight with a 1000 lb animal. Therefore we must find other ways to interact. Discipline may be putting pressure on the dually halter or bumping the horse's shin if he tries to bite. the difference between discipline and violence is that discipline is meant to modify a negative behavior and the purpose of violence is to cause pain. As intelligent beings we do not have to bite and kick as horses do, we can use our minds to create better solutions that will provide a better learning environment for all.
I think that one of the worst misconceptions about natural horsemanship is that there is no discipline. Just because someone chooses not to use violence with their horse does not mean that they allow the animal to do whatever he/she wants.
Meredith,
Some things to think about: when horses in a herd get violent with each other, it is to counter what they perceive as a threat to survival or the ability to procreate. They don't pick fights for no reason. A horse is a flight or fight animal--flight first. For a horse to pick a fight, its survival must be threatened in some fashion. And that when that happens, the horse has the ability to move away as a solution to the violence.
As humans, we have taken over control of the horse's survival and its ability to procreate, for the most part. And we have definitely restricted that ability to freely move away from a threat.
When someone justifies using violence or force on a horse with the argument that the action isn't anything close to the hurt that might be inflicted on a horse by a horse, you need to look beyond that. Remember that when the human inflicted that hurt or used that force, he had already somehow restricted that horse's ability to move away from the unwelcome actions of the human, which would always be the horse's first choice. Having taken away that choice, the horse will fight with tooth or hoof.
I believe that since we take away that freedom of flight, that we have the responsibility to factor that into our dealings with the horse. The argument about it not being a harder hit than the horse would inflict upon another horse merely demonstrates that the person dealing with the horse has a very poor level of control when things get scary for the horse, and that the person doesn't recognize this/is uncaring enough to not want to seek other ways to deal with the issue. Good control means recognizing the problem and making the horse more secure and comfortable. When you do this, harsh methods are unnecessary. With this understanding in place, discipline is never harsh or out of proportion to the infraction.
Kim & Julie m, thank you so much for your wisdom. It really helped me understand the phrase "be soft as possible and firm as necessary." Its about being a good human leader. We as humans have the responsibility and intelect to work with horses differently, without violence.
"discipline is meant to modify a negative behavior and the purpose of violence is to cause pain"